Flight Options getting the Legacy??

[OldManPilot]

I fly the EMB145 and I believe the Legacy would be marginal as a business Jet.

It's .74 max speed, 37000 Max cruise ceiling, and only a 6' tall cabin. I say its lower than that, I am 6'1" and I have to really bend over to walk through the cabin. Granted that is in an airline configuration.

It's fuel burn is good. Figure aprox 2450 lbs. per hr. @ FL370 (this is only an approx on what I remember seeing during cruise)

Cockpit is VERY loud. You need headsets and ANR is very helpful. Cabin I hope is quieter in the Legacy.


A/C systems are very user friendly and easy to train. Basically its a lights out cockpit. The Honeywell system works well. However it has no Vnav.

It is not at all comperable to a Gulfstream. Only in size.

Hope this helps answer any questions

 

[SheGaveMeClap]

Where did you come up with an Mmo of .74? The airline version is .785, but the Legacy might be up to .80? I thought I saw that somewhere, but not sure. Also, the airplane is certified at FL 390, not 370 like the airline version. I'm sure to get 3,200 nm out if it, you'll have to fly a long range cruise setting, which I believe is .74.

I'm sure they've quieted down the cockpit too. The wind noise was very loud. Hopefully the airplane works out the the fleet is successful.

 

[Heavy Set]

Shegavemetheclap,

Having flown the airliner version, do you have any interest in flying the Legacy? How does flying the Beechjet now compare to flying the 135/145 for you (do you enjoy the Beechjet more)?

 

[SheGaveMeClap]

Sure, I'd like to get into the Legacy. It'd be fun to get back into the Jungle Jet again, plus the pay will be pretty good in the jet at Options.

The Beechjet isn't a bad airplane. It's built like a tank, but doesn't have as much automation as the RJ. It also doesn't like crosswinds very well. All in all, the Beechjet is okay to fly. It'll hold me over until I can hold something bigger.

 

[OldManPilot]

Where did you come up with an Mmo of .74? The airline version is .785, but the Legacy might be up to .80? I thought I saw that somewhere, but not sure. Also, the airplane is certified at FL 390, not 370 like the airline version. I'm sure to get 3,200 nm out if it, you'll have to fly a long range cruise setting, which I believe is .74.

I'm sure they've quieted down the cockpit too. The wind noise was very loud. Hopefully the airplane works out the the fleet is successful.

Opps... yes .78 is Mmo. But its hard to hold .78 with no auto-throttle. Usually it's within a couple knots indicated.

I sure hope that they did quiet the cockpit. Currently it requires wearing Headsets.

 

[SheGaveMeClap]

Just read today they increased the Mmo to .80 in the Legacy. I guess it's being flown around in Brazil at .82, but they wouldn't certify it for those speeds in the US.

Talked to an Embraer rep in Phoenix doing a demo flight and he said they quieted the cockpit quite a bit. I've flown King Airs that have been quieter in cruise than the ERJ.

 

[AceCrackshot]

There is a cockpit insulation mod that helps, but does not eliminate the noise problem. The issue is a shock layer that develops over the cockpit at certain speed/attitude combinations.
The speed issue is due to bird strike considerations. (Per the tech rep.)

The Legacy usually comes with a step down aisle that helps the perceived height in the fuselage.

The 135's problems are the pitch trim issue, cockpit seats, noise and poor, poor checklists and tech support (especially WRT EICAS messages) from Embraer. It needs autothrottles...especially for approaches.

The nice things. A cheap, stone simple airplane (the 145 is all DC electrical power f.ex. ) with plenty of maint. support just about anywhere in the U.S. Good avionics (I prefer the Universal FMS, but I guess the Honeywell FMS is the standard) good engines, solid APU. Heats and cools like a champ.

Probably a good choice. I know Embraer pays for a certain number of our crews to be trained at FSI. They will talk turkey at price time, for sure. My $0.02.

 

[Ichibu]

Do all these people that fly the EMB-145 have a better chance of getting hired by Options, or is it simply a matter of who they need and where?

 

[BrnJetFuel]

I thought I saw that somewhere, but not sure. Also, the airplane is certified at FL 390, not 370 like the airline version.

I can't imagine not being able to go immediately to FL410 with a full load at the start anymore. Nowadays a/c manufacturers have to step up, or at least I presumed they had to in order to sell a product.

Sitting at the top of cells, maxed out at ceiling FL390 doing .74 to make it to the other coast seems ludicrous. Why would options want this slug? My guess is that Swift Aviation who committed to being the North American Dealer and had staked so much on this aircraft in assumption that he would be supporting NetJets Gulfstream fleet, was reeling from the loss he felt after NetJets, Santulli discovered he was double dipping at Options with his Citation X's. Swift made a deal to Raytheon, an aircraft manufacturer of "Beech and Hawker" products, which they couldn't refuse despite that they would be selling aircraft from another manufacturer's livery.

I don't know much of the aircraft but it seems very strange that Options who is controlled by a manufacturer of "AIRCRAFT that competes directly" with many of the aircraft it tries to sell through fractionalization, would take these slugs unless it was on the very, very, very, low cheap! And what’s up with SWIFT's pilots doing the piloting of the citation X's today and these new birds you've got coming too?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I would be terrified without my union protecting my job in this circumstance.

Good luck Guys!

 

[Bad-Andy]

And what’s up with SWIFT's pilots doing the piloting of the citation X's today and these new birds you've got coming too?

I can promise you that Swift's pilots are NOT flying the Legacys, too. There are two of us flying them for Options on a temporary, Contract basis, that used to fly for Swift, but again only as contract pilots in Kuwait. As they finish training their own guys (already in training now at FSI) and they get a little time in type with us, we'll be slowly phased out of the Options program. By Spring, it will be all Options pilots on the Options seniority list flying the things.

 

[BrnJetFuel]

I can promise you that Swift's pilots are NOT flying the Legacys, too. There are two of us flying them for Options on a temporary, Contract basis, that used to fly for Swift, but again only as contract pilots in Kuwait. As they finish training their own guys (already in training now at FSI) and they get a little time in type with us, we'll be slowly phased out of the Options program. By Spring, it will be all Options pilots on the Options seniority list flying the things.

Well I guess I didn't stray too far from the mark. You identified yourself as being a previous Swift pilot. And as far as I understand, the majority if not all of the Citation X pilots are Swift. No response only supports this. I spoke with a couple of Options pilots a couple weeks back that mentioned that they did have some guys in X school.

Latest word I hear now is that NetJets is getting the BeachJUNK...aka...Hawker400 to keep Raytheon afloat to support our 800XP fleet.

Fire away!!!!!

 

[slowtation capt]

You are right, the X's are being flown by Swift pilots. This is because of the deal that was made between FO and Swift. FO also does not want to take on one X. This would be a headache and an expense for FO to have a program for one airplane. When I say program, I am referring to a Program Manager, dispatchers, etc.

The Legacy is coming directly from Embraer. Right from the jungle, the four airplanes we are getting are airplanes that customers have either given back or have declined accepting. The Legacy's that we are getting are not coming from Swift.

 

[Frac Daddy]

Slowtation Capt.,

Why would you think that the X would warrant having it's own PM, dispatch, etc.? The Challengers, Falcons and Gulfstreams are lumped into the same program and it could fall under the "Large Cabin Program". Or, it could go into, naturally, the Citation program. After all, the Citation program already has four different types in it.

 

[slowtation capt]

Frac Daddy,

You are right, I didn't clarify myself enough. The X does not need its own PM, Dispatch, Scheduling. It can be lumped into another aircraft group like the Citations, but it won't go there since they are selling it as a large cabin. If we were to take responsibility for it, the large cabin dispatch and PM would get it.

It would be something that we would have to develope SOP's for, eventually get on the 135 certificate, which then involves proving runs with the FAA. Operating, dispatching, scheduling, and having a program manager that is already running how many aircraft types looking over another 1 aircraft is something that the company does not want to do. Now if and when they do sell, say all four of the Swift aircraft, yes then they would more than likely take control of the aircraft.

And the reason why none of our guys have flown or are going to fly the X as long as Swift is operating them, is because Swift is operating the X's under 135 rules all the time. We would have to send our guys to Phoenix to go through their 135 groundschool, get them 135 qualified. Again the company does not want to do this.