Flight Options getting the Legacy??

[Da Man]

Any truth to this rumor?? I heard they were out showing it to some of their customers. Any idea on timing?

 

[Da Man]

Looks like a lot of airplane (cabin) for the price of a X. I'm surprised no frax company has bought them yet.

 

[Dep676]

There was one on the ramp in CGF yesterday 10/2/03. It's nice but I can't stand up in it and I am only six foot. I guess that doesn't matter when you sitting up front. It was there all day on the ramp though. Went through it, was nice.

 

[slowtation capt]

Performance numbers are terrible on the legacy. You need a lot of runway to make it anywhere. Word has it a few of the GIV owners who where given a legacy when the GIV was not available. For what ever reason the company thinks the legacy is an upgrade. Well, they were not happy, cause the legacy can't even touch what the GIV can do.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

My GUESS is that the Legacy would have the same success as any other airliner converted to bizjet.

 

[Heavy Set]

It would probably be easy to support with all of the regionals using it... I have friends who fly the ERJ and they love it.

 

[mlberjpilot]

Flight Options Announces the Addition of the Embraer Legacy to its Fleet

The Legacy encompasses all that a large cabin aircraft has to offer, but at a low Occupied Hourly Rate


CLEVELAND (October 27, 2003) – Flight Options, a leading provider of fractional shares in jet aircraft and an affiliate of Raytheon Company (NYSE: RTN), announced today that it has the intention of adding the Embraer Legacy to its fleet of aircraft.


“As Flight Options continues to provide our owners with the most choices in business aircraft, we view the Legacy as the perfect compliment to the Flight Options fleet,” said John Nahill, chairman and chief executive officer of Flight Options. “The Legacy delivers the performance, range and passenger space of a larger cabin aircraft, but with the Occupied Hourly Rate of a super mid-size aircraft. This aircraft will afford us the large cabin capacity that our customers desire.”


“Embraer is proud to have the Legacy Executive selected by Flight Options for addition to their fleet,” said Frederico Fleury Curado, Embraer’s Executive Vice-President, Civil Aircraft. “The Legacy is the ideal product for the demanding fractional market, due to its low operating cost and rugged reliability, proven by over 4 million hours of operation of the ERJ 135/140/145 family. Flight Options' choice of the Legacy Executive acknowledges the value that Embraer has brought to the market with this product."


Powered by Rolls-Royce AE3007A1E engines, the Legacy is a true performer reaching a maximum cruise speed of Mach .80. In addition, the aircraft delivers a range of 3,250 nautical miles. The Legacy is also equipped with the latest in avionics technology for global navigation.


The newest addition to the Flight Options fleet also encompasses comfort. With standard seating for 13 passengers and a 1,410 cubic foot cabin, shareowners and their passengers experience three different seating areas: forward club seating; center dining and meeting table; and a semi-private aft cabin which includes a divan. In addition, there is walk-in access to the 240 cubic feet of baggage space, the largest baggage volume in the Flight Options fleet.


The Flight Options Legacy program is planned to be operational before year-end.


Based in Cleveland, Ohio, Flight Options is the world’s fastest growing fractional provider and employs over 1300 professionals nationwide. Flight Options offers fractional shares and leases in its fleet of over 200 aircraft, which includes the world’s largest fleets of King Air’s, Beechjet 400A’s and Hawker 800’s. The fleet also includes the CitationJet, Hawker 400XP, Citation V, Citation 650, Falcon 50, Citation X, Challenger 60, Gulfstream IV and the Legacy.


For More Information Contact: Heather Dynes
Flight Options
26180 Curtiss-Wright Parkway; Cleveland, OH 44143
Phone: 216.261.3500
hdynes@flightoptions.com

 

[Heavy Set]

Great news for FO pilots. So, what is the likely makeup of the FO fleet in the coming year? My guess is as follows:

King Air 200
Premier (how many and when start?)
Beech 400A or Hawker 400
CitationJet
Citation II
Citation III
Citation X (my favorite)
Hawker 800XP
Challenger 601
Falcon 50
Gulfstream IV
Legacy

Did I miss anything? Where is the growth in the fleet (which type is growing fastest)? Are any fleets expected to be pared down (e.g., Citation II)?

I have numerous friends who fly the EMB-145/135 and love it. Do you think it will go senior in bidding? Can the Legacy fly to Hawaii and/or Europe?

 

[Networ-King]

HHHMMMMMM

Me thinks there is some contract work to be done!!!!! NO?

 

[Heavy Set]

Hey Networ King,

I like your picture of the General Lee - I am sure General Lee will appreciate it too... I like it. Now, if I could only find a good picture of Daisy...

 

[Networ-King]

Heavy Set,

yeah just a quick little jab in good fun for the general, hope he likes it.......

 

[Grim Reaper]

Some contract flying initially but will tapper off quickly. First four pilots to win bid to captain in the aircraft are in school now. All four have large cabin background.

 

[Bad-Andy]

Performance numbers are terrible on the legacy. You need a lot of runway to make it anywhere.

Actually, whoever told you that was a little mistaken. I just came back from Kuwait where we were flying the Legacys (Legacies???) with the A1E (vs the A1P) engines. The thing is a monster. It can go full (max pax and bags) 2800-2900 miles (3100-3200 miles with 11 pax and full cargo or 14 pax and 500 lbs cargo) off of 5000 or so feet of runway at hot temps. And, all that at half the cost of a G-IV...

 

[Heavy Set]

Four questions regarding the Legacy for FO:

1. What kinds of buyers/passengers will be targeted for this aircraft - would the Legacy be grouped with the Falcon 50 and Citation X in terms of cost/performance?

2. If you are a mid-level or senior Flight Options Captain, would you be interested in bidding the aircraft? Do you have any interest in flying the Legacy?

3. Will newhire copilots be awarded the Legacy or will copilot positions be filled by current FOs?

4. Lastly, will the Legacy be capable of flying to Hawaii and Europe?


I have a few friends who fly the 135/145 and love it...

 

[Da Man]

Premier I

A little off topic, but is Flight Options still adding the Premier I to the fleet? Has any one flown it, and if so, flying impressions?

 

[Dep676]

I think it it might be on the back burner. Not a big hit. Always in MX and it can't carry people and fuel. One or the other but not both. Not a good airplane the way it is right now for fractional work.

 

[Bad-Andy]

Lastly, will the Legacy be capable of flying to Hawaii and Europe?

I can't answer the first 3 (I'm not there), but as for the 4th... Yes, it will make Hawaii from the West Coast, and it will make London/ Paris from the North East.

 

[Bad-Andy]

Mike,

Wasabi???? Dude, your email account won't accept messages from our server. WTF, over???? Anyways, safely back in IAH now. Drop me an email. Yeah, I talked to Squared right before I went back to Q-8. I'll fill you in then.

BadAndy

 

[Heavy Set]

Thor,

Sounds good. If I had good seniority like that I would also bid the Legacy or the Citation X myself. When do the Legacys arrive and will they use a flight attendant?

Let us know if you get it.

 

[xrated]

Can Options guys bid the X yet?

 

[OldManPilot]

I fly the EMB145 and I believe the Legacy would be marginal as a business Jet.

It's .74 max speed, 37000 Max cruise ceiling, and only a 6' tall cabin. I say its lower than that, I am 6'1" and I have to really bend over to walk through the cabin. Granted that is in an airline configuration.

It's fuel burn is good. Figure aprox 2450 lbs. per hr. @ FL370 (this is only an approx on what I remember seeing during cruise)

Cockpit is VERY loud. You need headsets and ANR is very helpful. Cabin I hope is quieter in the Legacy.


A/C systems are very user friendly and easy to train. Basically its a lights out cockpit. The Honeywell system works well. However it has no Vnav.

It is not at all comperable to a Gulfstream. Only in size.

Hope this helps answer any questions

 

[SheGaveMeClap]

Where did you come up with an Mmo of .74? The airline version is .785, but the Legacy might be up to .80? I thought I saw that somewhere, but not sure. Also, the airplane is certified at FL 390, not 370 like the airline version. I'm sure to get 3,200 nm out if it, you'll have to fly a long range cruise setting, which I believe is .74.

I'm sure they've quieted down the cockpit too. The wind noise was very loud. Hopefully the airplane works out the the fleet is successful.

 

[Heavy Set]

Shegavemetheclap,

Having flown the airliner version, do you have any interest in flying the Legacy? How does flying the Beechjet now compare to flying the 135/145 for you (do you enjoy the Beechjet more)?

 

[SheGaveMeClap]

Sure, I'd like to get into the Legacy. It'd be fun to get back into the Jungle Jet again, plus the pay will be pretty good in the jet at Options.

The Beechjet isn't a bad airplane. It's built like a tank, but doesn't have as much automation as the RJ. It also doesn't like crosswinds very well. All in all, the Beechjet is okay to fly. It'll hold me over until I can hold something bigger.

 

[OldManPilot]

Where did you come up with an Mmo of .74? The airline version is .785, but the Legacy might be up to .80? I thought I saw that somewhere, but not sure. Also, the airplane is certified at FL 390, not 370 like the airline version. I'm sure to get 3,200 nm out if it, you'll have to fly a long range cruise setting, which I believe is .74.

I'm sure they've quieted down the cockpit too. The wind noise was very loud. Hopefully the airplane works out the the fleet is successful.

Opps... yes .78 is Mmo. But its hard to hold .78 with no auto-throttle. Usually it's within a couple knots indicated.

I sure hope that they did quiet the cockpit. Currently it requires wearing Headsets.

 

[SheGaveMeClap]

Just read today they increased the Mmo to .80 in the Legacy. I guess it's being flown around in Brazil at .82, but they wouldn't certify it for those speeds in the US.

Talked to an Embraer rep in Phoenix doing a demo flight and he said they quieted the cockpit quite a bit. I've flown King Airs that have been quieter in cruise than the ERJ.

 

[AceCrackshot]

There is a cockpit insulation mod that helps, but does not eliminate the noise problem. The issue is a shock layer that develops over the cockpit at certain speed/attitude combinations.
The speed issue is due to bird strike considerations. (Per the tech rep.)

The Legacy usually comes with a step down aisle that helps the perceived height in the fuselage.

The 135's problems are the pitch trim issue, cockpit seats, noise and poor, poor checklists and tech support (especially WRT EICAS messages) from Embraer. It needs autothrottles...especially for approaches.

The nice things. A cheap, stone simple airplane (the 145 is all DC electrical power f.ex. ) with plenty of maint. support just about anywhere in the U.S. Good avionics (I prefer the Universal FMS, but I guess the Honeywell FMS is the standard) good engines, solid APU. Heats and cools like a champ.

Probably a good choice. I know Embraer pays for a certain number of our crews to be trained at FSI. They will talk turkey at price time, for sure. My $0.02.

 

[Ichibu]

Do all these people that fly the EMB-145 have a better chance of getting hired by Options, or is it simply a matter of who they need and where?

 

[BrnJetFuel]

I thought I saw that somewhere, but not sure. Also, the airplane is certified at FL 390, not 370 like the airline version.

I can't imagine not being able to go immediately to FL410 with a full load at the start anymore. Nowadays a/c manufacturers have to step up, or at least I presumed they had to in order to sell a product.

Sitting at the top of cells, maxed out at ceiling FL390 doing .74 to make it to the other coast seems ludicrous. Why would options want this slug? My guess is that Swift Aviation who committed to being the North American Dealer and had staked so much on this aircraft in assumption that he would be supporting NetJets Gulfstream fleet, was reeling from the loss he felt after NetJets, Santulli discovered he was double dipping at Options with his Citation X's. Swift made a deal to Raytheon, an aircraft manufacturer of "Beech and Hawker" products, which they couldn't refuse despite that they would be selling aircraft from another manufacturer's livery.

I don't know much of the aircraft but it seems very strange that Options who is controlled by a manufacturer of "AIRCRAFT that competes directly" with many of the aircraft it tries to sell through fractionalization, would take these slugs unless it was on the very, very, very, low cheap! And what’s up with SWIFT's pilots doing the piloting of the citation X's today and these new birds you've got coming too?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I would be terrified without my union protecting my job in this circumstance.

Good luck Guys!

 

[Bad-Andy]

And what’s up with SWIFT's pilots doing the piloting of the citation X's today and these new birds you've got coming too?

I can promise you that Swift's pilots are NOT flying the Legacys, too. There are two of us flying them for Options on a temporary, Contract basis, that used to fly for Swift, but again only as contract pilots in Kuwait. As they finish training their own guys (already in training now at FSI) and they get a little time in type with us, we'll be slowly phased out of the Options program. By Spring, it will be all Options pilots on the Options seniority list flying the things.