flight ops contract

[rufus]

I see nothing or do I on your new pay scale in airlinepilotcentral. Did you get a raise or not??? Please post your new scales so we know. We do not need another XO jet if the check comes in the mail, number here for future pilots. Thanks

 

[HSDriver]

Huh???

 

[ultrarunner]

Rufus, speak English please.

 

[chainring]

Troll !

 

[1folinepilot]

Rufus, You have to look at the bottom of the list to see the new Flops scale. Still don't see it? Keep looking lower, lower, lower. Ah yes there it is all the way at the bottom of the fractional industry standard list.

Yes there was a Raise, but for the most part if you are not in the top 15% of the senority list you will not actually see any more money for the aditional hours worked/flown with the rules of the schedule transition or the rediculously low staffing levels. If you are a pilot on property that did not bid a 7-7 schedule, you will see a small raise, but you will have to work a hell of a lot more days and hours to get it.

 

[Alaska82]

Flight options may have played a play that Crandall did years ago.
I wonder what will happen when the new hires out number the senior pilots.



Hand landings is a great book all pilots should read it.



http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/1997/04/28/225523/index.htm



Thanks to growth made possible by all the cut-rate hiring, American expanded so quickly that the b-scale pilots eventually made up the majority of the union that Crandall is haggling with today. The b-scalers, whom some at the airline now refer to as the Killer B's, are largely responsible for a grassroots movement called Pilots Defending the Profession that has sprung up on the Internet during the latest round of negotiations. Though the union leadership had approved a tentative settlement offer from American last year, the leaders of the splinter movement persuaded the pilots to turn it down (by almost 2 to 1) when the full membership voted on ratification in January.

 

[Alaska82]

current pilots will get the higher pay old plus 10% or new which ever is greater
furloughed recalled after January 1, 2011 higher of your old pay or new pay but no 10% increase.
8&7 First officer
OLD New
33996 48000 41.2%
36000 49680 38.0%
39996 51418 28.56%
45996 51418 28.56%
51996 55081 15.7%
54396 57008 4.8%
56796 59004 3.89%
63156 61069 negative
66372 63206 negative
69852 65419 negative
73500 67708 negative
74700 70078 negative
75900 72531 negative
77100 75069 negative
78300 77697 negative

7&7
OLD NEW
33996 45000 32.37%
36000 46575 29.38%
39996 48205 20.52%
45996 49892 8.4%
51996 51638 negative
54396 53445 negative
56796 55316 negative
63156 57252 negative
66372 59256 negative
69852 61330 negative
73500 63476 negative
74700 65698 negative
75900 67998 negative
77100 70378 negative
78300 72841 negative

16+2 if you work 16
OLD NEW
33996 48729 43.34%
36000 50434 40.01%
39996 52200 30.51%
45996 54027 17.46%
51996 55918 7.54%
54396 57875 6.4%
56796 59900 5.47%
63156 61997 negative
66372 64167 negative
69852 66413 negative
73500 68737 negative
74700 71143 negative
75900 73633 negative
77100 76210 negative
78300 78877 0.74%


Small Cabin
Captains
8&7

Old NEW
51996 58824 13.13%
54264 60882 12.2%
56796 63013 10.94%
63156 65219 3.27%
66372 67501 1.7%
69852 69864 0.02%
73500 72309 negative
74700 74840 0.19%
75900 77459 2.06%
77100 80171 3.98%
78300 82977 5.97%
80700 85881 6.42%
83100 88887 6.94%
85500 91998 7.6%
87900 95218 8.32%

7&7

OLD NEW
51996 55147 6.06%
54264 57077 5.19%
56796 59075 4.01%
63156 61143 negative
66372 63283 negative
69852 65497 negative
73500 67790 negative
74700 70163 negative
75900 72618 negative
77100 75160 negative
78300 77791 negative
80700 80513 negative
83100 86248 3.78%
85500 89266 4.41%
87900 92391 5.11%

16+2 if you work 16
OLD NEW
51996 59717 14.85%
54264 61807 13.9%
56796 63971 12.63%
63156 66210 4.84%
66372 68527 3.25%
69852 70926 1.54%
73500 73408 negative
74700 75977 1.71%
75900 78637 3.61%
77100 81389 5.56%
78300 84237 7.58%
80700 87186 8.04%
83100 90237 8.59%
85500 96664 9.97%

 

[Praetorian]

Figures Lie and Liars...

What "Alaska" fails to mention is that around 90% of active Flight Options pilots are currently paid as Capt's on either the 8/7 or 16/2 schedules, so all those other numbers he posted are irrelevant until recalls begin.

He also fails to mention that all pilots on the property as of 4/1/10 (contract ratification) received a 10% raise, as well as two months of retro pay.

He also fails to mention that on 1/1/11 many pilots on the property will receive an additional 10-25% raise due to the contractually mandated elimination of the infamous "slide to poverty" program, in addition to their regular annual raise in 2011. Slide to poverty was a program where pilots were paid for time in service in a particular fleet, not in service to the company. (Ex. A pilot who has worked for the company for 10 years, but only upgraded in his/her particular fleet four years ago, was paid as a four year Capt., pre-contract. Post-contract on 1-1, the same pilot will be paid as a 10 year Capt.). Some pilots were shorted as many as seven years and this all goes away instantly in January.

In addition to this "Alaska" also fails to mention that beginning in year 4 of this contract, if the company elects to exercise its options to extend, to pay scales will increase 3% above the posted scales each year, or an additional 6% compounded over the life of the five year contract.

Finally what he fails to point out, is that all of this represents a total average 38.9% raise over the term of the contract, not to mention the additional PTO/Vacation, work rules, job protections, and the laying aside of at-will status that were achieved. This in my opinion was an extraordinary achievement during the worst recession in 80 years. An achievement that should not be sullied by those we fail to do their homework or those who never paid a dime, or sacrificed a minute of their personal time to make it a reality.

The pilots at Flight Options should be, and are proud of their collective achievement, no-matter what a few ignorant misguided malcontents have to say anonymously. After-all 88% of us voted in favor of this contract.

Rome was not built in a day and never will if self interested rhetoric is allowed to rule.

 

[Alaska82]

What "Alaska" fails to mention is that around 90% of active Flight Options pilots are currently paid as Capt's on either the 8/7 or 16/2 schedules, so all those other numbers he posted are irrelevant until recalls begin.

He also fails to mention that all pilots on the property as of 4/1/10 (contract ratification) received a 10% raise, as well as two months of retro pay.

He also fails to mention that on 1/1/11 many pilots on the property will receive an additional 10-25% raise due to the contractually mandated elimination of the infamous "slide to poverty" program, in addition to their regular annual raise in 2011. Slide to poverty was a program where pilots were paid for time in service in a particular fleet, not in service to the company. (Ex. A pilot who has worked for the company for 10 years, but only upgraded in his/her particular fleet four years ago, was paid as a four year Capt., pre-contract. Post-contract on 1-1, the same pilot will be paid as a 10 year Capt.). Some pilots were shorted as many as seven years and this all goes away instantly in January.

In addition to this "Alaska" also fails to mention that beginning in year 4 of this contract, if the company elects to exercise its options to extend, to pay scales will increase 3% above the posted scales each year, or an additional 6% compounded over the life of the five year contract.

Finally what he fails to point out, is that all of this represents a total average 38.9% raise over the term of the contract, not to mention the additional PTO/Vacation, work rules, job protections, and the laying aside of at-will status that were achieved. This in my opinion was an extraordinary achievement during the worst recession in 80 years. An achievement that should not be sullied by those we fail to do their homework or those who never paid a dime, or sacrificed a minute of their personal time to make it a reality.

The pilots at Flight Options should be, and are proud of their collective achievement, no-matter what a few ignorant misguided malcontents have to say anonymously. After-all 88% of us voted in favor of this contract.

Rome was not built in a day and never will if self interested rhetoric is allowed to rule.

Ask the 6 year first officer if he is proud of this contract. The union took from the junior pilot to give to the senior pilot. 38.9% raise if you are on property right now. What is the % for all of the 523 pilots on the seniority list? I bet that average is alot lower if you count the pilots who are getting the short end of the stick in your math.

 

[Alaska82]

What "Alaska" fails to mention is that around 90% of active Flight Options pilots are currently paid as Capt's on either the 8/7 or 16/2 schedules, so all those other numbers he posted are irrelevant until recalls begin.

He also fails to mention that all pilots on the property as of 4/1/10 (contract ratification) received a 10% raise, as well as two months of retro pay.

He also fails to mention that on 1/1/11 many pilots on the property will receive an additional 10-25% raise due to the contractually mandated elimination of the infamous "slide to poverty" program, in addition to their regular annual raise in 2011. Slide to poverty was a program where pilots were paid for time in service in a particular fleet, not in service to the company. (Ex. A pilot who has worked for the company for 10 years, but only upgraded in his/her particular fleet four years ago, was paid as a four year Capt., pre-contract. Post-contract on 1-1, the same pilot will be paid as a 10 year Capt.). Some pilots were shorted as many as seven years and this all goes away instantly in January.

In addition to this "Alaska" also fails to mention that beginning in year 4 of this contract, if the company elects to exercise its options to extend, to pay scales will increase 3% above the posted scales each year, or an additional 6% compounded over the life of the five year contract.

Finally what he fails to point out, is that all of this represents a total average 38.9% raise over the term of the contract, not to mention the additional PTO/Vacation, work rules, job protections, and the laying aside of at-will status that were achieved. This in my opinion was an extraordinary achievement during the worst recession in 80 years. An achievement that should not be sullied by those we fail to do their homework or those who never paid a dime, or sacrificed a minute of their personal time to make it a reality.

The pilots at Flight Options should be, and are proud of their collective achievement, no-matter what a few ignorant misguided malcontents have to say anonymously. After-all 88% of us voted in favor of this contract.

Rome was not built in a day and never will if self interested rhetoric is allowed to rule.

Well lets look at my figures for a new hire if we ever hire again. The figures are the most accurate for them. My question to you is did the union make Options a more profitable career for them or for you?

 

[Dingo221]

The most junior pilot at Flops is about 8 or 9 years in seniority and this includes the Furloughed pilots.
So if you do not know about Flops please do not post any craps!

 

[Alaska82]

The most junior pilot at Flops is about 8 or 9 years in seniority and this includes the Furloughed pilots.
So if you do not know about Flops please do not post any craps!

No the last guy on the list is 523 and he was hire 4/21/2008. If you looked at the list you would know this. Wait you would have to go to the company aircrew portal to find this info. Maybe when the union post the list you will be more informed.

 

[fracjack]

Praetorian

So 88% voted in favor and how many actual people would that be? That number is probably embarassing as it would reflect actual number of MIGS.
The majority of yes votes were tired of fighting and caved. This will become evident when the economy rebounds and furloughees are recalled and recruiting for new hires begins.

 

[1folinepilot]

Ah the distorted view of reality by the Praetorian Guard

What "Alaska" fails to mention is that around 90% of active Flight Options pilots are currently paid as Capt's on either the 8/7 or 16/2 schedules, so all those other numbers he posted are irrelevant until recalls begin. This is a true statement


He also fails to mention that all pilots on the property as of 4/1/10 (contract ratification) received a 10% raise, as well as two months of retro pay. Praetorian failed to mention that nobody will receive their normal annual increase in 2010, as under the contract they now have to wait till 01-01-2011 till the new pay scale kicks in so for most this is a loss of 2 to 3% of pay.

He also fails to mention that on 1/1/11 many pilots on the property will receive an additional 10-25% raise due to the contractually mandated elimination of the infamous "slide to poverty" program, in addition to their regular annual raise in 2011. Slide to poverty was a program where pilots were paid for time in service in a particular fleet, not in service to the company. (Ex. A pilot who has worked for the company for 10 years, but only upgraded in his/her particular fleet four years ago, was paid as a four year Capt., pre-contract. Post-contract on 1-1, the same pilot will be paid as a 10 year Capt.). Some pilots were shorted as many as seven years and this all goes away instantly in January. Praetorian has distorted the facts as it is less than half of the remaining pilots on the seniority list will receive a large pay increase on 01-01-11 while the lower half will will be red circled (pay frozen) or only receive a 1 to 2% raise till the new pay scale catches up to their current earnings.

In addition to this "Alaska" also fails to mention that beginning in year 4 of this contract, if the company elects to exercise its options to extend, to pay scales will increase 3% above the posted scales each year, or an additional 6% compounded over the life of the five year contract. Praetorian has again told a half truth and has omitted the fact that if the company elects to back to negotiations instead of extending the contract, the pay and work rules are frozen at year 3 till the new contract is ratified. This could potentially be a several year pay freeze for all

Finally what he fails to point out, is that all of this represents a total average 38.9% raise over the term of the contract, not to mention the additional PTO/Vacation, work rules, job protections, and the laying aside of at-will status that were achieved. This in my opinion was an extraordinary achievement during the worst recession in 80 years. An achievement that should not be sullied by those we fail to do their homework or those who never paid a dime, or sacrificed a minute of their personal time to make it a reality. Praetorian has again has a distorted view of reality as only a couple of pilots will see this 38.9% raise. The majority of pilots will see nothing of an increase with all of the extra uncompensated work days assigned every 6 months in schedule transitions, loss of days off on the 16-2 schedule, increases in insurance costs, and when the company elects at the end of year 3 to return to negotiations everybody's pay is frozen. Furloughed pilots get a HUGE pay cut no matter how you look at it and the eventual new hires will not be able to afford to work here. Praetorian, please explain to us how the average Flight Options Pilot will receive a 38.9% raise?

The pilots at Flight Options should be, and are proud of their collective achievement, no-matter what a few ignorant misguided malcontents have to say anonymously. After-all 88% of us voted in favor of this contract. Praetoraian, so you say you have 88% of your click voted in favor of the contract. Tell us how many yes votes you actually had.

Rome was not built in a day and never will if self interested rhetoric is allowed to rule.

 

[Praetorian]

Ah the distorted view of reality by the Praetorian Guard

What "Alaska" fails to mention is that around 90% of active Flight Options pilots are currently paid as Capt's on either the 8/7 or 16/2 schedules, so all those other numbers he posted are irrelevant until recalls begin. This is a true statement


He also fails to mention that all pilots on the property as of 4/1/10 (contract ratification) received a 10% raise, as well as two months of retro pay. Praetorian failed to mention that nobody will receive their normal annual increase in 2010, as under the contract they now have to wait till 01-01-2011 till the new pay scale kicks in so for most this is a loss of 2 to 3% of pay.

He also fails to mention that on 1/1/11 many pilots on the property will receive an additional 10-25% raise due to the contractually mandated elimination of the infamous "slide to poverty" program, in addition to their regular annual raise in 2011. Slide to poverty was a program where pilots were paid for time in service in a particular fleet, not in service to the company. (Ex. A pilot who has worked for the company for 10 years, but only upgraded in his/her particular fleet four years ago, was paid as a four year Capt., pre-contract. Post-contract on 1-1, the same pilot will be paid as a 10 year Capt.). Some pilots were shorted as many as seven years and this all goes away instantly in January. Praetorian has distorted the facts as it is less than half of the remaining pilots on the seniority list will receive a large pay increase on 01-01-11 while the lower half will will be red circled (pay frozen) or only receive a 1 to 2% raise till the new pay scale catches up to their current earnings.

In addition to this "Alaska" also fails to mention that beginning in year 4 of this contract, if the company elects to exercise its options to extend, to pay scales will increase 3% above the posted scales each year, or an additional 6% compounded over the life of the five year contract. Praetorian has again told a half truth and has omitted the fact that if the company elects to back to negotiations instead of extending the contract, the pay and work rules are frozen at year 3 till the new contract is ratified. This could potentially be a several year pay freeze for all

Finally what he fails to point out, is that all of this represents a total average 38.9% raise over the term of the contract, not to mention the additional PTO/Vacation, work rules, job protections, and the laying aside of at-will status that were achieved. This in my opinion was an extraordinary achievement during the worst recession in 80 years. An achievement that should not be sullied by those we fail to do their homework or those who never paid a dime, or sacrificed a minute of their personal time to make it a reality. Praetorian has again has a distorted view of reality as only a couple of pilots will see this 38.9% raise. The majority of pilots will see nothing of an increase with all of the extra uncompensated work days assigned every 6 months in schedule transitions, loss of days off on the 16-2 schedule, increases in insurance costs, and when the company elects at the end of year 3 to return to negotiations everybody's pay is frozen. Furloughed pilots get a HUGE pay cut no matter how you look at it and the eventual new hires will not be able to afford to work here. Praetorian, please explain to us how the average Flight Options Pilot will receive a 38.9% raise?

The pilots at Flight Options should be, and are proud of their collective achievement, no-matter what a few ignorant misguided malcontents have to say anonymously. After-all 88% of us voted in favor of this contract. Praetoraian, so you say you have 88% of your click voted in favor of the contract. Tell us how many yes votes you actually had.

Rome was not built in a day and never will if self interested rhetoric is allowed to rule.

Wow, thats a real knee slapper. Completely un-true, but really funny. Ya know, I started to sit down and refute your distortions point by point, but I decided freeloaders like you are not worth it. You don't have a vote, or a say in how the union is run anyway, so who cares what you think.

Anyways, I stand behind the information I posted earlier. Any pilot (even you freeloader) can plug in his date of hire/fleet/monthly salary pre-contract into the "salary calculator" on the unions message board and generate his/her own numbers. I think anyone who does so will see for themselves that you didn't do any homework before posting that wildly inaccurate BS above.

 

[fracjack]

Wow, thats a real knee slapper. Completely un-true, but really funny. Ya know, I started to sit down and refute your distortions point by point, but I decided freeloaders like you are not worth it. You don't have a vote, or a say in how the union is run anyway, so who cares what you think.

Anyways, I stand behind the information I posted earlier. Any pilot (even you freeloader) can plug in his date of hire/fleet/monthly salary pre-contract into the "salary calculator" on the unions message board and generate his/her own numbers. I think anyone who does so will see for themselves that you didn't do any homework before posting that wildly inaccurate BS above.

Pure BS Praetorian! You have no rebuttle over the facts. But I'm sure you're pleased as punch to supplement your military retirement. Those of us who have been in the industry for a career see right through your limited experience. Just stay in line as the follower the view will never change.

 

[1folinepilot]

Praetorian the unifier has spoken so all is cleared up! BP needs a new spin Dr./spokesperson, perhaps you can get a job over there now that your job is complete at Options.

 

[1folinepilot]

Wow, thats a real knee slapper. Completely un-true, but really funny. Ya know, I started to sit down and refute your distortions point by point, but I decided freeloaders like you are not worth it. You don't have a vote, or a say in how the union is run anyway, so who cares what you think.

Anyways, I stand behind the information I posted earlier. Any pilot (even you freeloader) can plug in his date of hire/fleet/monthly salary pre-contract into the "salary calculator" on the unions message board and generate his/her own numbers. I think anyone who does so will see for themselves that you didn't do any homework before posting that wildly inaccurate BS above.

Praetorian, How about 1 easy question for you since you are unable to refute the truths I have posted. How many members in good standing voted yes for your contract. You should be proud of your achievement and post the election results.

 

[Praetorian]

Pure BS Praetorian! You have no rebuttle over the facts. But I'm sure you're pleased as punch to supplement your military retirement. Those of us who have been in the industry for a career see right through your limited experience. Just stay in line as the follower the view will never change.

Up yours fracjack-wagon. Weren't you one of the in-house union pushers? So you undermined the union at a critical time in negotiations, showed you a$$ to management and now you have the gall to come on here and complain about the contract you tried to prevent from becoming a reality in any form. Remember the old axiom, "don't s**t were you eat and then complain about the taste of your food."

It occurred to me that most of the in-housers were in the large cabin. I'll bet when you plugged your numbers into the union's salary calculator as I suggested, you liked what you saw.

But you know my favorite thing about having a union? There is an election every three years and if we don't like the way the e-board guys are running things we get to run for office and replace them.

Two bad free-loaders can't participate. Not that I think either of you two have the stones to stand up and run even if you could. No your much better suited for complaining. :bawling:

 

[fracjack]

Sorry to dissapoint you praetorian, but in house would never work,especially with the likes of peeps like you who pay dues and fly overtime plus break airplanes at your convenience and suck up to management all at the same time. Your type will think only of what's in it for you and hide behind your migs status. Flops will never be a career position. IBT will never last at flops let alone attract other fracs.You sold out and association fees equal to dues is not freeloading it's a pay cut for the majority,but you don't get the big picture and this is a waste of time.