Flight Engineers...

[SMOE]

Just curious on the E3 how is it that the FE did the engine starts. My experience is on the 720B/320c and the pilots did the engine starts on that aircraft. Were the start switches located so the FE could get to them along with the start levers. Sounds complicated but then maybe the AF E3 was configured different than the civil B707. Also, correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to recall that the C135/KC135 did not have an FE station the the copilot ran the fuel and hydraulics, plus other duties traditionaly left to a designated FE. I agree that having an FE, whether it a PFE or a S/O is a great addition to the crew.

The E3 looks like a 707, but just like the KC-135, the systems are completely different the the 707. The start switches are on the overhead within easy reach of FE or pilot. The exception to the 135 was the WC-135 which had an FE who occupied the jump seat and had no panel. Can't say as he had a lot to do but I have no experience in it.

 

[PHX767]

That's because..

The WC-135 didn't have a Boom Operator to watch the crew.

PHX
former Boom Operator/pilot watcher
now I are one...

 

[TonyC]

That's because..
The WC-135 didn't have a Boom Operator to watch the crew.

Several other -135 variants had no boom operator, and no flight engineer. I was still using a slipstick when "booms" were using HP calculators to accomplish the Form F.



In fact... I wonder what one of these would bring on e-bay.






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[LJDRVR]

I always liked the old saw about the E-3's boldface. Supposedly the only memory item for the pilots was:

Seat Back........................ERECT
Coffee.............................STOW
Flight Engineer.................AWAKEN

Then of course there's the old joke about the only reason the B-727 requires an FO is birdstrike protection for the FE.
Hey SMOE, how's the new career at XJET treating you? I'm enjoying it alot, especially in light of the 700+souls hired under me in the last 15 months. Can't wait to be on reserve again.

 

[TonyC]

Then of course there's the old joke about the only reason the B-727 requires an FO is birdstrike protection for the FE.

That, and the gear handle is too short for the FE to reach it. That problem, of course, can be remedied with a broomstick and some duct tape.








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[PHX767]

Several other -135 variants had no boom operator, and no flight engineer. I was still using a slipstick when "booms" were using HP calculators to accomplish the Form F.



In fact... I wonder what one of these would bring on e-bay.






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Tony,
I'd be glad to make you a good deal on my "Load Adjuster."

I don't envy you your RC experience - no Boomer and TWO Navs!! The co had to be the hardest working guy on the plane!

Then again, I have official time in an RC-135 as a Boomer. Do you know which model?

 

[TonyC]

Then again, I have official time in an RC-135 as a Boomer. Do you know which model?

Nope. You got me there.






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[PHX767]

Nope. You got me there.


It was an RC-135T we borrowed from the 55SRW back in '79. Used it for receiver A/R pilot training for our KC-135 ART special ops mission, and of course transition practice. We used the normal full crew for receiver practice, and if we just flew it around the patch we had to have either a Boom or a Nav onboard to lower the gear if an emergency arose. So, the Boom usually went along for most of the pattern rides. That way we could do the Form F, get the door closed and strap the ladder down, etc that normal KC-135 crews were not accustomed to doing.

Since the wing wanted us on board as a required crewmember, after differences training our aeronautical orders were amended to reflect that we were KC/RC-135 Boom Operators. I have a whopping 7.7 hours on my form 5 in the RC-135T.

 

[TonyC]

It was an RC-135T we borrowed from the 55SRW back in '79. ... I have a whopping 7.7 hours on my form 5 in the RC-135T.

55-3121 was originally a KC-135A. Under the "Rivet Stand" program, it was modified into a KC-135R(I). Later, it was modified to become the "Rivet Jaw" KC-135T, and still later was modified to "Rivet Dandy" RC-135T. As the RC-135T, it was assigned to the 6th SRW in Eielson AFB, AK when a crew of three was executing MLS approaches on 25 Feb 85 at Valdez, Alaska. The Aircraft Commander's "Fini flight" was indeed his last. The airplane crashed into the side of a mountain and was not found until the following August.


The Aircraft Commander taught my Instrument Referesher Course just weeks before the crash.








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[TriStar_drvr]

The best part of having an engineer is that he (or she) does all the aircraft walk-arounds. I really felt sorry for the engineer one night in Bismark, ND when the temp was around 30 below and the wind was blowing about 20 knots, so I offered to... lend him my hat and gloves.

 

[STL717]

They help to keep the two guys up front from killing everybody. It's the perfect place for an "unloaded" pilot to monitor the whole operation and get the "big" picture.

X

The FE will see problems before the pilots do.

Where does Captain Kirk sit on the Starship Enterprise??