Flight Crew Harassment

[Goodstick]

In light of recent news about passengers heckling the AA crew and the subsequent cancelation I started thinking of all the times I and my crew have been harrassed by passengers for either running late due to aircraft swaps or even comments about sobriety. The question comes up as to how best to deal with this? Would you just ignore the passenger and go about your normal duties or politely tell the person that if he wants to get to his destination that he had better refrain from making anymore such comments? At my company it is unclear how our management would support us for removing apassenger for making a comment such as "Hey are you guys sober enough to fly the plane this morning?

 

[ultrarunner]

Once an airline passenger makes a sobriety comment directed toward a crew member, that is essentially grounds for removing yourself from the flight.

 

[Flyerdan]

In light of recent news about passengers heckling the AA crew and the subsequent cancelation I started thinking of all the times I and my crew have been harrassed by passengers for either running late due to aircraft swaps or even comments about sobriety. The question comes up as to how best to deal with this? Would you just ignore the passenger and go about your normal duties or politely tell the person that if he wants to get to his destination that he had better refrain from making anymore such comments? At my company it is unclear how our management would support us for removing apassenger for making a comment such as "Hey are you guys sober enough to fly the plane this morning?

Answer - Not yet but we plan to taxi slow so hopefully we will be before the take-off roll. And if the hang over gets too bad while en-route I have a bottle of vodka in my flight case that should get us to our next over night. THANKS FOR ASKING!

 

[Andy Neill]

"Hey are you guys sober enough to fly the plane this morning?

If you're in Las Vegas, say "You bet!"
If you're in Anchorage on Dec 21st, say "Sober as the day is long (about 5 hours and 27 minutes)."
General: "Sure are. Are you sober enough to ride?"

 

[flyipilot]

AA is at total fault in this. When do the airlines EVER learn? I know, the pilots were late..big deal. The point is your paying customers were waiting and waiting and waiting. AA should have delt with it in a better fashion. It is getting so old that when a paying customer voices their concern and most of the times rightly so, and the airlines screams "threat" OH oh....stop hiding behind the TSA and FAA. We all know the rules and we all know that the airlines just will never learn about good customer service or taking a bad situation and turning it good. So, they keep losing customers and keep losing money. GO ahead, bash me...I am a fellow pilot and I see it all the time when I am in the airports. I shake my head in shame and thank my lucky stars I am no longer in that industry. I would fire every CSR and start over. But, it is obvious, the top execs see it and do not care. Maybe Virgin America will be the best airlines out there. Time will tell.

 

[i'mbatman]

Its easy, you act like a professional and don't respond.....it happens every single day to pro athletes.....how many of them do you see talking back to loudmouthed idiot fans?

 

[Goodstick]

Its easy, you act like a professional and don't respond.....it happens every single day to pro athletes.....how many of them do you see talking back to loudmouthed idiot fans?

That is generally how I deal with these types of passengers but I am seeing a disturbing trend. Perhaps with the ticket prices going up "bus people" will go back to the buses.

 

[FLYLOW22]

I remember a Delta crew in DFW that walked off the flight to do a voluntary (requested) alcohol test after a pax made a comment about sobriety when boarding.

Crew wanted to clear their good name.

3 hour delay. Good times. Don't blame them one bit.

 

[Andy Neill]

I remember a Delta crew in DFW that walked off the flight to do a voluntary (requested) alcohol test after a pax made a comment about sobriety when boarding.

Crew wanted to clear their good name.

3 hour delay. Good times. Don't blame them one bit.

This behavior on the part of the crew makes no sense to me. Why punish the 99% of the passengers who didn't say a word for the boorishness of one?

 

[ultrarunner]

This behavior on the part of the crew makes no sense to me...

Then you don't understand the sensitivity of the situation when a paying passengers accuses a crew member of possible intoxication.

It is no laughing matter.

 

[lionflyer]

I remember a Delta crew in DFW that walked off the flight to do a voluntary (requested) alcohol test after a pax made a comment about sobriety when boarding.

Crew wanted to clear their good name.

3 hour delay. Good times. Don't blame them one bit.

Comair did the same thing in ATW a few years ago because of some smarta$$ comment about sobriety. Good for them! Of course the article I was reading made the crew out to be the bad guys.

 

[ultrarunner]

Yep, it's always the crews fault for passenger ignorance.

Expensive fares can't come soon enough...for a number of reasons.

 

[waka]

I remember a Delta crew in DFW that walked off the flight to do a voluntary (requested) alcohol test after a pax made a comment about sobriety when boarding.

Crew wanted to clear their good name.

3 hour delay. Good times. Don't blame them one bit.

I completely agree. Although it would be sweet justice had the Captain made a cabin announcement; "Folks, due to the passenger in 12C questioning our sobriety, we're going to take a 3 hour delay so that we can go take a voluntary alcohol test. When we finally get underway, we'll try to make up some of that time enroute."

 

[Andy Neill]

Then you don't understand the sensitivity of the situation when a paying passengers accuses a crew member of possible intoxication.

It is no laughing matter.

I see no need for a delay because a passenger said "Heh, heh. You guys sober enough to fly?" On the other hand, if the capatain asked that passenger "Do you have any reason to think we are not" and the passenger said "I'm not sure" or "yes", I'll go with the test then. Not just because the captain's sensitive ego was bruised by a boorish comment.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Fact is that you do. Even if they are joking it is an accusation, and you must deal with it accordingly.
Here at DAL we have done something to combat this. We have trained observers. When you get your sobriety questioned, you call one of them. They being trained observers of ones sobriety take all of the liability and make the go no go decision.
If they decide that you are sober, you go, if not you go get tested.
I had this happen before this change in policy. Called the CP's for the legal guidance, and straight from legals mouth was, even if they are joking you need to go get tested. He came out took everyone off drove us to the clinic, got tested, drove us back and we left four and a half hrs late, minus one passenger.

 

[brownie]

:angryfire You know before 9-11 pilots and flight crews had some kind of prestige and respect from flying public and after 9-11 crew members have been s..t on from the f..kin tsa and managment and now the flying public. I'll say f..k em and i'm tired of it ,they need to know who calls the shot around here. We the pilots and cabin crew decide when the planes move not the public so if you're harrassed walk away and this thing will get fixed, until we're willing to take thier s..t and the job is done nothing will get fixed. STAND UP FOR YOUR SELF AND THIS BEAT UP INDUSTRY WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO TAKE IT BACK.:angryfire

 

[radarlove]

We've had this discussion here before. There is no way to get a DOT alcohol test due to a snide comment. The DOT forms have these check boxes:

- pre-employment
- random screening
- accident/incident
- reasonable suspicion.

"Reasonable suspicion" is very strict and a manager trained in the recognition of drug or alcohol abuse has to personally observe the behavior and symptoms prior to requiring a test. Note, this doesn't say, "pissed-off co-worker", or "passenger trying to be funny", it means that someone who has been through a specific class on recognition has to vouch for the test.

Otherwise, there's no test. You have to check the form, and "got my panties in a twist" isn't a DOT check-box.

I bet you could get off, and demand a test and call your union and your chief pilot and your mother-in-law whining, but the drug and alcohol folks aren't coming out.

On the other hand, you might be able to beg a police officer for a breathalyzer test, they can give 'em to anyone. But that doesn't count under the DOT standards. The cops don't even have a form to fill out if you pass one, so what good is it?

In the end, I suspect the stories about the crews getting off a flight for a test are true, but I doubt very seriously whether they ever even got a test.

If they did, there was some very serious regulation-breaking.

The DOT/FAA regulations covering testing were put together very carefully to protect covered workers from being harassed into getting tests, hence the strict definition of "random" and the very, very strict definition of "reasonable suspicion".

So go throw a hissy fit and pout and refuse to come back on until your passengers all grovel and apologize, but don't bother doing the alcohol test. You're not getting one.

And if you do get one, someone (including you) has broken both DOT and FAA regs.

And I, for one, will be pissed off about it, because willfully throwing protections against dangerous harassment out the window for a hissy fit is not good for any of us.

The last think I need is to go for a drug test every time someone who doesn't like me decides I should go pee in a bottle. Or blow in a straw.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

It does not need to be a DOT test. It literally can be a Breathalyzer, and if that pegs you get the DOT and get to check the reasonable suspicion box. That is how our lawyers explained it to me.
Ask the HIMS guys too, I know that they will agree.
Most airports are equipped to deal with this after the MCO incident a few years ago. Going to the clinic for a calibrated Breathalyzer is no longer required since most airport police stations now have them.
FWIW

 

[JT8D]

That is generally how I deal with these types of passengers but I am seeing a disturbing trend. Perhaps with the ticket prices going up "bus people" will go back to the buses.

What ticket prices going up? It is working the other way.

With the price of gas "bus" tickets are as expensive if not more than airline tickets. Greyhound raised their fares to reflect current costs to do business.

IMAGINE THAT! (are you reading this airline execs?)

Why would you get down on "bus people"?.. when you voluntarily work in an industry that charges less for their product than it costs them to produce? (except for freight operators)

Who's the dummy? (you'll have time during your next upcoming furlough to contemplate that question).

 

[SkiFishFly]

The last think I need is to go for a drug test every time someone who doesn't like me decides I should go pee in a bottle. Or blow in a straw.

Consider this scenario - you dismiss the passengers accusation and press on. Passenger talks to overzealous reporter. DA with a ego much larger than his small pen&s warrants, wants to make a name for himself and gets involved.
You (legally) had a drink or two at the bar the night before. Reporter and DA dig this up and suddenly find someone (or a couple of people) who say you were so drunk you almost fell over leaving the place. You are pronounced guilty in the court of public opinion and have no defense - might even be facing charges and a protracted legal battle. Publicity becomes so bad FAA decides to step in and take a look at "what happened".
All could have been avoided with a test sanctioned/conducted through CPs office.

 

[FlyingSig]

Dang ACL, usually I'm correcting your posts but today you're spot on 100% accurate.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Come on. Correcting my posts. We just differ on opinion...:laugh:

 

[johnsonrod]

The one certainty in this situation is that AA's gate agents in MIA are among the WORST in the industry (close behind all ATL and JFK gate agents in my experience). Sure, it's difficult to deal with rowdy/rude passengers. With that said, these people need proper training and they need to live up to more professional service standards. Where do they get these people - the neighborhood 7-11?

 

[Bai B Nai]

Yep, it's always the crews fault for passenger ignorance.

Expensive fares can't come soon enough...for a number of reasons.

Here, here. I pray for the day when it costs $700 to go from MIA to LGA and not $199. The sooner the better.

Ahhhh....friendly skies again.

 

[spacecadet1]

That is generally how I deal with these types of passengers but I am seeing a disturbing trend. Perhaps with the ticket prices going up "bus people" will go back to the buses.

I think you're on to something here. With the reductions in schedules and rjs, delays will decrease. Additionally, although income level is not necessarily an indicator of cranial capacity, there is a strong correlation. There should be a definite reduction in the retard crowd.

 

[scoreboardII]

If questioned, I answer with "no Mam/sir, I have not been drinking, it doesn't go well with my antidepressant/heart/alzheimers medications."

 

[samballs]

Its easy, you act like a professional and don't respond.....it happens every single day to pro athletes.....how many of them do you see talking back to loudmouthed idiot fans?

Albert Belle was never afraid to respond
1. threw the ball from the outfield to the bleachers, nailed the guy square in the chest.
2. On Halloween, chased the kids throu the park in his SUV. They were egging his Rocky River house
3. Recently stalked his girlfriend becuase she dumped him

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Albert Belle was never afraid to respond
1. threw the ball from the outfield to the bleachers, nailed the guy square in the chest.
2. On Halloween, chased the kids throu the park in his SUV. They were egging his Rocky River house
3. Recently stalked his girlfriend becuase she dumped him

But thats only one guy....imagine the "welcome" he and his teamates get when they play on the road....thankfully, on that team, they only had one idiot.

 

[C-150ETOPS]

The one certainty in this situation is that AA's gate agents in MIA are among the WORST in the industry

Try standing by a podium for 10 minutes on a problem day and just listen to the endless line of pricks trying to validate their self esteem issues.

90% of them equate their 1 hour delay to Shackeltons ordeal in Antartica.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Maybe the Embry-Riddle guys are on to something???

It's hard to hear a passenger's comment when your ipod earbuds are in; whether it be walking through the terminal, or sitting on the flightdeck during boarding. imp: