Flight Academy Question

[C601]

Timebuilder

Your looking too much into the question. I am not talking about any US Reg airline. Just an xyz type question.

And as far as this in your posting

"trying to get hired on the basis of having purchased a job"

Purchased a job what you talking about , There is not wording of job in GA's program, its a First officer training Course, nothing more nothing less of which you get to fly 250hrs in a 1900 and of you go.

Futher more you still have to pass all there 121 check rides in order to fly to them, just like you and any other airline. If you dont pass you dont fly ..

Look you be surprised how many people have gone this route, every time i pass the GA HQ there seems to be endless students in the classes.

At the end of the day, i will pass at going to GA. The stuff i have from them showed there pilot program was 44,990, now its $53994. But yet there program is the same no change.

I would like to go to FS but do i want to take out a $65,000 loan for a CPL/IR/ME/CFI course.

so many paths to choose from and can only take 1 route. now wheres that magic ball...........if only

And yes i do get it , thats why i've moved on from looking at the PFT, and look somewhere else.

 

[Timebuilder]

Good for you, passing on the GA program!

Purchased a job what you talking about , There is not wording of job in GA's program, its a First officer training Course, nothing more nothing less of which you get to fly 250hrs in a 1900 and of you go.

If there are paying passengers in the back, and GA needs to have an FO as a part of their operation, then that right seat is a JOB, and at GA, someone has purchased the right to occupy that seat.

That's why we call it "paying for a job".

Good luck in your quest for excellence.

 

[bobbysamd]

Call me:

Proud to be embarassed.

Me, too!

 

[flybub]

First off, I apologize. I did not mean to offend anyone on the PFT thing and I was wrong in what I was talking about. After reading a little bit about PFT I was out of line and I'm sorry. Dean I apologize to you as well because you're looking for a place to get started and get your dream of flying on the roll and I shot you down when you mentioned GA. So to all of those who I offended or upset in anyway it was not my intention and I apologize.

 

[Dean]

Thank you for the apology, but i didnt think it was that harsh (lol). That may have been the most honost reply I've seen yet. You see, My situation is very different than that of probably most people. Me and some friends and family were thinking of buying a used twin enginge, maybe turbo-prop, and if we did, we could possibly do some chartering with it on the side. That is the issue that i have for concentrating on gulfstream because of the actual airline type experience. And at the same time, yea it would not be bad to get hired down there, but if not im fortunate enough to still have a life here at home when i get back. If I decided to go that route my goal was not to cut line without paying due's, I just was impressed about the type of flying you get to do with them. So once again, Thank you for your concern. By the way, this has been a real helpful forum. Thanks to all.

 

[Timebuilder]

That's the reason that most of us are here: to be a help and give something back to aviation.

Here is something to remember if you are considering buying a turboprop in order to gain experience: insurance. Few individuals are able to go out and rent a multiengine airplane just after they attain their multi rating. I was fortunate that the school where I trained and later worked as an instructor had an insurance policy that would cover me for personal use. We're talking about a Seneca, which has two 200 hp piston engines.

Trying to find an insurance company that will let you fly a King Air will be difficult, at best. In order to make your idea work, you will likely have to hire a pilot who is experienced and current in your new aircraft, and that pilot will be the legal PIC for FAR part 1 and insurance purposes. He can instruct you during your flights, and you can log PIC under part 61, as long as you are operating under part 91. If you put the plane on leaseback, you can try and get yourself named as a required SIC for the 135 operation, an maybe you could be upgraded at some point to PIC.

To sum it up, get your CFI, II, MEI, and instruct for the experience you will need to advance in aviation . After that it's a matter of insurance.

Good luck.

 

[Dean]

Help

Ok fellow aviators, I have spent countless hours searching through past threads of many message boards, and the one thing I have found is that all flight schools Point-Blank suck in respect to honosty and quality of training. The feeling I get is that all the flight schools are comparable to used car dealer. They tell you anything to get you in even it is not entirely true. This scares the hell out of me because no matter where i go, I will be spending alot of money for training.

I do want the most bang for my buck, but searching through all the threads, you cant trust any of them. My question, I guess, is what flight school has the best reputation in the business for providing services they promised and at the price they quoted. I looked at Ari-Ben, and it looked good on paper anyway, but then I read some terrible experiences people has had with them. so now Im back to square one.

What am I going to do? So many to choose, So little time. (lol)
Is there a silver lining to this grey cloud?
Any advice would Greatly be Appreciated.
Thank you and God bless

 

[ch47fe]

I am in your boat. Here's what I think.

First, Suck it up because other than going to FlightSafety and paying out the buttocks you will not get any warm and fuzzies about any school. I didn't this one sucks, that one sucks, bla, bla. Let's face it if you talk to 2 people from every school in just Florida you will probably not get a great story from anybody. Each individual had a different beef with each school. It's a crap shoot.

I eventually took the horror stories with a grain of salt and began to look at the business side of each operation. Like finding out if newbies were consistently entering each month into the schools programs. How many people were completing the program?(if nobody can finish their program that's a red flag) What tickets are you contracted to earn for what $$ is the program price guaranteed?

Get the contract you will be signing and read every small block of text, evaluate the loop holes that will let the school off and determine the worst case scenario and see if you could live with it before sigining it.

Talk to anyone that has recently finished the program or folks waiting to get a job that ha attended the school.

I have done all of this and still the truth exists. The school will still probably screw you if they really want to. I have talked with person s who attended big programs trying to gain insight from what other people are unhappy about and put myself in their situation and how I might feel. Some of the stories I got have been off the wall situations where you wonder how anyone with common sense get in their situation.

I wouldn't agree with all of the folks blaming the schools for no one getting hired out of the programs offered right now, they don't control the market.

Good Luck Trooper!

 

[bobbysamd]

Flight schools that don't suck

[T]he one thing I have found is that all flight schools Point-Blank suck in respect to honosty and quality of training. The feeling I get is that all the flight schools are comparable to used car dealer. They tell you anything to get you in even it is not entirely true. This scares the hell out of me because no matter where i go, I will be spending alot of money for training . . . .

That's really an overgeneralization. Some schools really will fleece you. Some schools provide good training, but you have to fight for it. Some schools do not suit certain personalities and needs. That doesn't necessarily mean they suck with respect to honesty and quality of training. Sometimes, the people who complain about a school did not try hard enough to work within the program and with other people.

I worked for three different 141 programs, ERAU, FlightSafety in Vero, and Mesa in Farmington. They all had different cultures, but they shared one thing in common: Students usually and instructors nearly always had to put up with a great deal of nonsense. A lot of it can be blamed on management, but I would bet much of the nonsense stems from egos and lack of people skills. Also, miscommunication and misunderstandings.

As was said above, the best, or worst, reference for a particular flight school is results. Once you narrow down your choices, talk to grads from each, away from the property, if possible. Just ask if the program helped them attain their goals. Listen to what they say. You probably will wind up with mixed opinions. But, at least you will be closer to the facts that if you rely strictly on people you meet at a school.

Once again, good luck with your decision.

 

[AceAxe]

I am currently attending GA.I have been here for 3 weeks now and from what I've seen and heard firsthand,this school does go to bat for you if there is no open seat in their airline upon completing your 250hrs flying the line.Currently Northwest Link has been taking pilots that haven't even completed the F/O(less than 500 hrs.) program because these pilots apparently have been trained so well it saves them money.Also the washout rate is considerably less than aspiring pilots who came from other backgrounds.The cost may seem high,but for $24000-F/O program you get 250hrs flying a twin turbo/part 121.Less than $100/hour,you can barely rent a C-172 for that!So far I am pleased and have heard other positive comments from fellow students.Of course every school has it cons,and for GA, I would say theirs are the 20yrs/old planes we fly.

 

[Timebuilder]

As long as you don't pay money to sit in a seat where an employee belongs, you will find that you can get a benefit from a flight school equal to the amount of effort you put into the experience. I have heard both positive and negative comments concerning the school you mentioned. How then can a school be evaluated?

1) Alumni. Start meeting pilots, and find out where they trained. What were the pitfalls? The costs? The quality of instruction?

2) Site visits. Go to the school, ask questions, talk with students and instructors. Look at the airplanes. Look at the staff: sandals and T-shirts, or neat clothes and a professional demeanor?

3) DPE's. The local examiners will have seen the quality of the school's product on a regular basis. You MIGHT be able to get a candid opinion about where you should train.

Hope this helps.

 

[172driver]

The last three or four posts were right on the money. The bottom line is that most flight academies provide excellent training to those who work hard. Also, you are going to pay for it. The less effort you put in, the more you will pay.

Don't be too discouraged by the negativity you read on the board. Most of it comes from disgruntled ex-students who couldn't hack it in the 141 environment. It is fast paced and you can count on 10-12 hrs a day of aviation time if you do it right. 4-6 hrs a day if you want to spend all your money and then b!tch about all the terrible things the school did to you. The hard work is something the salespeople don't do a good job of emphasizing for obvious reasons.

I have trained 61 and 141 and been happy with both. You only get back what you put in.

 

[Timebuilder]

One more note: there is nothing to stop you from learning as much as you can about flying BEFORE you ever enroll in a school. None of the regulations or physics will have changed. Start with the PTS for your private and whatever text you like, be it Jepp, Kershner, or the three volume Pilot's Guide. If you are relatively certain that you will choose a school that uses 172's, buy or borrow a POH for the airplane.

Try to have knowlege relating to each lesson, once you start your training. My instructor had a habit of asking me what we would be doing during our lesson. I'd say, for example "soft field takeoffs and landings", having looked at the syllabus. He'd have me describe the technique I'd use, etc, and give me hints to get the job done.

Challenge yourself before the instructor challenges you. Proper Preparation Prevents Poor performance.