Flight academies

[Archer]

What are, in your opinion, the best flight academies out there, that provide you with good training, good equipment, in a short period of time ( no more than 1 or 2 years) and help you out with at least instructor jobs...perhaps hiring you as one of their own instructors...perhaps with a chance to upgrade to larger planes.

I am interested in FlightSafety Academy right now as a possible choice after I graduate from uni. They have a 35 week professional pilot program, and they seem to have a great reputation among airlines and business flying.

do you think these places are a good investment of time and money for a corporate pilot's career?

 

[Kream926]

flight schools

hey
let me start off.......im at spartan in tulsa and i love it. i heard bad about those flight school that give you an atp in 2 months and guarantee you a job with who ever (ATA). flight saftey is good i hear, spartan is kinda long because they give you a degree in business . ive been here since august 2002 started with 0 time, got my private, inst, and im half wayt hrough my commercial and wil start cfi and my MER together hopefully by june.
tulsa's not bad, i dont know what your life style is but theres enough to do here at night, but not enough to get in trouble. the only downfall that i can see is that most of private and comm. training is done in a 152, well maintained and not that expensive. i was quoted 46,000 dollas from 0 time to ppl, inst, comm, cfi.cfii, and mei...............
feel free to email me or PM me if you need to know more.....hope this helps

 

[Archer]

FlightSafety seems to be around that mark too. about 40 grand or so.

I was attracted by Pan Am's multi time...but when I looked at it...it comes mostly from simulators!

And I think there is a big difference between a simulator and real life multi flying

 

[bigD]

I have a good friend that did his Instrument through MEI at Flight Safety. He thought the facilities and quality of training were very, very good.

Going through a place like Flight Safetly is going to cost you significantly more than doing the same training at some 61 school, but you'll probably get your tickets sooner, and the schools are a known quantity. My friend mentioned that he's the type that thrives in a more structured program like Flight Safety - and that's the main reason he didn't train at a smaller school.

 

[banned username 2]

And I think there is a big difference between a simulator and real life multi flying

There is...

If you can find somewhere that has you do a large portion of your training in a twin, I think this will give you an excellent foundation. When I went through ERAU we did things in this order:

Private (SEL)
Multi-Private (MEL)
Instrument (MEL)
Commercial (MEL)
Commercial (SEL)
CFI (ASEL)

I came out with about 65-70 hours of twin time out of about 250 hours. I felt very comfortable flying a twin. Guy who graduated from other schools typically had 12-15 hours of Multi time and did it merely as an "add-on" rating.

 

[Archer]

I was wondering if training at FlightSafety Academy or Pan Am is worth those extra bucks as you mentioned.

They do seem to have the biggest, most advanced and well maintained Piper fleets in the nation. They also seem to have very good simulators, for example Pan Am's ACE simulators...the 2 million dollar a piece CRJ-200 sims that they seem to only ones to have.

Plus these "academies" seem to train the pilot to high professional standards...and train you to use FMS, IFR GPS, EFIS etc...and get you used to airline type environment.

So I was wondering, in your opinion, would you get such high quality training from FSI or Pan Am and spend 40 grand to get some 350 hours with perhaps 60 hours of multi...or would you go train at some cheap FBO (yet good training) and gain some 450 hours and some 100 hours of multi with 40 grand...

Basically...do you believe in quality of flight hours? Do employers?

Archer

 

[CitationLover]

buy a book on fms, ifr gps, any aviation topic etc and teach yourself.

use the savings by going to a cheaper school and buy all the multi-time possible.

the "airline training/type environment" argument is hysterical. the cheapest (and some say best) way to get your license is through uncle sam, who gives two $hit$ about "airline environemnt". do you see colleges (real colleges not some sally struthers/lincoln tech) whoring themselves on the "microsoft/computer", "corporate" environment? all these schools care about is $. erau is nice due to the fact you may get a college degree out of there.

my $.02.

 

[bigD]

Woohoo - I've passed FlyChicaga's reading list with a perfect 8/8!

Archer - I think you *can* get pretty much the same level of education by going the Part 61 route, but you gotta shop around for a good school, and you have to be self motivated to work hard on your own. From what I understand about schools like Flight Safety - the rigor of the program pretty much forces you to work at a high level, whereas at a lot of Part 61 schools, you could skate by on the bare minimums. It'll be on your shoulders to work hard and make sure you're well beyond the minimum standards set by the PTS. There ARE Part 61 instructors that'll work you hard, but many are just looking to get you past the checkride and move on, and if that means you're just barely within PTS standards - so be it. This is why my buddy flew at Fight Safety - he thought he wouldn't have the proper motivation at a 61 school.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I think the structured FSI route is the way to go.
Its a known syllabus, timeframe, lots of aircraft to fly, etc...

Just go, knock out the ratings, and get out and start building time and contacts (most important)...

Oh yes, I agree, that "airline training" crap is a JOKE. I hope they truly dont waste your time and money teaching you to use a FMS on a 737. How stupid is that?

All you need to learn at this point is how to get point A to B without getting lost and to learn how to keep a student from killing you. Save the 737FMS $hit for another day, thats what initial schools are for later on...

Although... I would NEVER EVER EVER attend FSI "academy" if they still make them wear those god awful stupid A$$ dorky uniforms they used to wear. That would never happen. Nothing like pre-flighting a Piper Warrior in full blown epaulets and $hit!!! Funniest thing I ever saw!

anyways....wait...Archer might just like that...sorry...

 

[FSIGRAD]

When I was a student at FSI I was never too big on the whole uniform thing, but as an instructor there I don't really mind. At least I never have to think about what to wear to work.

As far as "airline training" there is very little of this taught in the standard CIME syllabus. Contract groups like Swiss Air or Asiana do fly in crews, but a regular student is trained for single pilot IFR flying in a twin. The fanciest piece of equipment is Garmin 430 GPS's in the seminoles, sorry no FMS's.

 

[chawbein]

Have you thought about AllATP's? I know someone who went there and it seemed to work out OK for him. Looks like 190 ME as far as time. That's if you have your PPL. About $32k, it seems from their website. Just an idea if you are going to have your degree already.

 

[Airpiraterob]

well...

ive begun to see places wanting CFI's......the kind that need time teaching as they just got out of school getting all those ratings...

aynway the CFI's they're wanting "Must have licenses and ratings from an accredited school" wich means the school is accredited by a known recognized institution. most commonly thats the state in wich the school is in that does the accrediting. Poorly run schools dont get that. But then i'm not sure really how good of a thing that is. It's prolly just for the sake of image of the flight school doing the hiring.

how hot is it lately down there at Spartan? must be some nice weather.....tornado's yet?

 

[Archer]

Have you thought about AllATP's? I know someone who went there and it seemed to work out OK for him. Looks like 190 ME as far as time. That's if you have your PPL. About $32k, it seems from their website. Just an idea if you are going to have your degree already.

looks like a great school that gets you a lot of multi time and good training...but it requires US citizenship, which I don't have.

But I think that's only for their 'career pilot program" or wahtever they call it...

but I guess I could get a multi rating from them...with all that multi time

the lack of citizenship and residency makes the already difficult pilot market almost impossible to get into...*sigh*

Archer

 

[bigD]

Archer - have you figured out what the heck you're gonna do with yourself yet? You need a faster computer dude - it's certainly taking a long time to compute your future for you.

 

[Archer]

Yes I have. I'm going to become a professional pilot of some kind.

Right now the plan is to get my PPL in two weeks. I already did my instrument written yesterday. Get my IR next fall, and my multi thereafter.

Start buildiing multi time with my CFI, as I can't be PIC of the Seneca until I have 250 hours.

Fly a lot of VFR/IFR cross countries in Arrows and Archers.

This is the plan until I graduate next year. THEN, I'll continue my training until CFI, and try to get a job as CFI somewhere.

Instruct for like a year or so, hopefully get some multi time, until 135 mins. Then fly 135 for a couple of years. Then Part 91.

I'm considering now whether to get JAA and/or Transport Canada licences to fly in Canada and/or Europe in case I can't fly in the US because of all the citizenship.

There are a couple places in Florida that train you for both JAA and FAA licences...I heard getting Transport Canada licences is cake, just a couple of exams.

So I'll be hunting for jobs in the continental US, if I don't find one, then Canada, if I don't find one, then Alaska or Europe.

At least I made a step forward...decided I want to spend the rest of my life at 12,000 ft, FL250 or FL 390 as I move on to faster and bigger not behind a computer.

I love flying, and I'll do whatever it takes to fly as a profession.

I got to start by convicing my parents, and finding a flight school/employer that will sponsor me for a green card.

Once again, any help from you pro pilots would be highly appreciated

Archer

 

[banned username 2]

Archer,

Congratulations on finally making a decision....

Good luck to you in your adventure...

One small word of advise... Your "expected times" in each position (i.e. CFI, 135 etc.) are incredibly optimistic... do youself a favor and plan to CFI 3 years, 135 for 5+ years and then part 91... if it goes faster than you will be pleasantly surprised... and if it doesn't you won't be shocked... I think my times I quoted are MUCH more realistic... even for a real go-getter of a person... at least in this environment...

Good Luck!

 

[Archer]

Well, by part 91 I didn't mean flying a Citation after 3 or 4 years, more like a Baron under Part 91.

And I was hoping after a year or year and a half of instructing, getting some other "low time" job around 1200 hours.

Yesterday, after my Instrumetn written, while I was waiting for my ride at the FBO, a Citation cam in.

There were two Captains and a FO. I dont' know why, I only saw one plane. They Captains looked like they were in their late 40s or 50s. (i.e very experienced for a Citation pilot).

The FO was much younger.

They were originally trying to go to Chicago, but there were thunderstorms, golf-ball size hail and tornadoes. 100 ft ceilings and quarter mile vis...

I had a talk with one of the Captains. He was a formber B-52 pilot, military guy, he had flown in Europe too. He told me the industry sucks, but it should pick up in 2 years or so, when I was planning to start getting a flying job.

He told me it's times were you want to hold on to your pilot job real tight. I asked him about foreign people working in the US, he said there are a lot of Swedish and Norwegian pilots working in the US after they flight insctructed...

so that gave me a little hope.

Archer

 

[bigD]

Sounds like you have a plan of attack Archer, and that's cool. Now I'm certainly no authority on matters involving professional aviation, but I've been around pilots long enough to have learned two things....

First, be willing to be flexible with your plan. Having a plan is good, but if you get too focused on executing it exactly as it's laid out - you may miss other opportunities that are sitting right in front of your face. The industry changes, and also be willing to accept that your priorities may change as well - and that may require changing your direction a bit. Just keep your eyes open, and be flexible.

And second, copy the quote at the bottom of all Falcon Capt's posts. Paste it into a Word document and print it about a thousand times. Cut the printed quotes out and paste them everywhere. Inside you logbook, your school binders, notebooks, on the dashboard of your car, on your cat - everywhere. Every time you step into a plane to go fly - say it to yourself first. I stress this because you seem like the kind of person this needs to be emphasized to.

The flying you're doing now is just as much a part of being a pilot as strapping yourself into the left seat of a Falcon, Citation, or whatever else. The payoff will be worth it, but be sure to love what you're doing right now. The process is every bit as important as the goal.

Okay. I'm done. Sorry for the rant. It's a good reminder for me, too!

 

[Archer]

on your cat

I like that one If I ever get a can, I'll try

Well, regarding your two points.

1)I really don't have anything specific. I'll be building hours, multi hours preferebly wherever I can, IFR x/c hours. I know Part 135 is a good point to start after instrucing, banner towing, flying jumpers etc. Part 91 whenever I'll get a chance.

2)I am not your typical pilot. I havn't flown a single hour professionally, but I KNOW I won't like Part 121 flying in big jets. I just don't like the idea, just like I found out however much I like engineering, I can't see myself behind a computer/in a lab for the rest of my life.

I will be looking hard for jobs in which you fly Barons, Senecas, Navajos, 300/400 series Twin Cessnas. I see myself flying light twins for MANY years, all over the place. Just because I like the type of flying done in a small airplane.

And that's good as you need to start with small airplanes anyways right? No ones gets to fly jets at 1000 hours nowadays.

BUT, I wouldnt want to be stuck flying pistion aircraft my entire life. I would like to move on to turbopropos and jets.

King Airs are not that much bigger than 400-series Cessnas...so seems like a gradual transition...so I expect to be flying King Airs a lot...many years.

so what that get me up to? 7/8 years? Well, after that time, with some 4 or 5000 hours of total time, 4000 or so of it multi, 2000 of it or so turbine or something like that...I'll be ready for transition to a jet. Not just because the industry demands it but for 2 other personal reasons:

1) Safety. I know flying a jet with all it's advanced systems must be harder than flying a piston aircraft. Though I've heard from people on this board that flyinga CE 414 is harder than flying a CE 750. I'm still trying to understand the reasoning behind that. Probably because everything is automated in the jets, more info, more advanced systems = safer.

2)As I said, I like flying small airplanes at low altitudes, and I expect I'll be doing a lot of that.

I just need to figure out how to get permission to work in the US...that's my first, greatest obstacle.

 

[banned username 2]

They were originally trying to go to Chicago, but there were thunderstorms, golf-ball size hail and tornadoes. 100 ft ceilings and quarter mile vis...

Gee... JetPilot500 and I got into Chicago that night... We ended up at ORD, and just barely squeeked in at minimums....