Flexjet

[pino]

Looking for info on Flexjet from anyone who works there or is knowledgable. Specifically:

1. Is there a contract for new hire F.O's?
2. Can you explain how the scheduling works?
3. What is the pay starting in the 60 or 45?
4. How are bases assigned?

The only negatives I have heard is the long upgrade (4 yrs +), but that seems to be the case everywhere these days I think. Also I was told by a friend that there is a 2 year contract but fracstats.com says there is no contract. I want to live permanently in Dallas, is that possible or can I be based wherever Flexjet deems necessary?

Advance thanks to anyone who responds.

 

[payton]

Dont expect much from Flex. They will work your butt off and then downsize you 2 seconds later.
Otherwise, the capts are good to fly with.
airplanes are great and maintained very well.
Hotels suck.
Pay suck.
days off suck.

Get your time and get out.

 

[Meathead]

1. Yep, there abosolutely, definitely, no doubt about it is a 2 year training contract for new FOs.

2. This is a little convoluted - 28 day bid cycle. Typical award is for 17 flying days. This will be comprised of (3) rotations made up of 5 or 6 days at a time. (7s were just eliminated). Anyone not in the top seniority of their fleet has almost ZERO say in what days you get.

3. Starting pay for FOs is about 34K. No pay differential for equipment in the FO ranks. (By the way, current plan is no new hires into the Challenger 300). So - bank on the 45 (includes the 40), or the 60. I don't think anyone else will go to the 31 unless attrition gets completely out of hand.

4. Base is your choice of DFW, EWR, FLL, or ONT (or somewhere within 90 minutes of one of those.)

There are some FOs at 4+ years. Nice hardware, and yes, you can plan on a regular diet of 12 hour days +.

 

[gump88]

I heard that Flex would be out of buisness by the end of 2004!

g

 

[Heavy Set]

I hear the Challenger 300 will be a sell-out and could lead to a Flexjet rebound...

 

[LR45JI]

either/or

There has been some concern expressed about the long-term viability of Flexjet. Flexjet is really in a niche market in the fractional industry and they know it and are happy with status-quo.

The 300, from my understanding, has done remarkably well!!! While many like to say that the 300 is selling off the shelf, which is only a half-truth. The 300 has basically sold off all available shares but the majority (over 90%) is from current FX owners: mostly 60 owners going over because the price difference is marginal.

FX will have minimal growth - no huge expansions and no mass exodus. They are super micromanaged from Montreal that it's ridiculous and the boys up north are just happy with the way things are. FX generates a fair amount of positive cash flow and that’s good for everyone.

Five years ago they had plans to take over QS but couldn't handle the bleeding of money that goes with slaying a giant - Bombardier doesn't have the stomach for such when it's not their core business.

 

[flexlrpilot357]

Pino,
A few additional comments:
1: Yes, I believe there is a contract for new-hires. Call Karen Parr for details.

2: Scheduling works as follows. There are 13 28-day bid periods per year. Base pay is figured on 219 work days total (including vacation and training). The average bid award is 17 days/period, though it goes as low as 14 during slow season, and as high as 20 during busy season. (these max and min lines are rare) Min # of days on is 4, max is 6. Figure the number of on/off combinations that add up to 28, and that's how many schedule combinations there are.

The seniority-based bid system is a bit complex. It awards lines based on company requirements and then by seniority. Good luck getting Christmas off if you're junior. Some guys would have you believe that the system gives them the exact opposite of what they want, no matter what that is. But... you know some guys...

During peak seasons, all days over 17 were paid at the OT rate.

Upgrades have been slow for the past couple of years, so new captains join the captain pay scale at the # of years as an FO minus one. i.e. 4th year FO gets 3rd year Capt. pay upon upgrade. (~$61K)

The reason for the change in max/min work days is to avoid layoffs due to unforseen peaks and troughs in demand. Last year there was a "furlough" due to a mis-estimation of demand. (those furloughees interested in returning have since been re-hired.) The hiring strategy was changed to avoid this in the future.

3&4 have been answered pretty well.

Hotels have been excellent for the past several months, since we changed our travel agent.

Pay sucks... I guess because our FOs make what Netjets Captains make.

Someone said days off suck. Well, what you do on your days off is your business. The schedule has been explained pretty thoroughly. The 7-day line was recently deleted due to popular request. (and probably at considerable company expense)

Flexjet is doing pretty well after a rough couple of years. We had our 2nd best February ever this year. We've been profitable for the past 2 years or so - a claim our larger competitors can't make. (ref. their shareholder's annual report) Also, our FOs are paid better than Netjets captains and our crewmembers don't have to foot the bill for our "negotiating team" to stay at home and do god-knows-what for the past couple of years. (100% raise!! WOOP!)

The Challenger 300 has sold like hotcakes. So well that new owners have had to buy into aircraft such as the LJ60 in order to wait for their 300 share to become available. The 300 is about :40 minutes slower coast to coast than the Citation X (590 vs. 540mph - if the X can do M.92 the whole way), with a much bigger cabin (28'L X 6'1"H X 7'2"W vs. 19.8'L X 5'7"H X 5'6" W) and for several million dollars less. Oh yeah, and our paint kicks ass. The future is looking bright.

Bombardier doesn't have to bleed money to beat QS. QS bleeds the money for us.

All in all, I'd go to Netjets if I were you. Just think, either you'll get a 100% raise (anydaynow) or you'll get a lot of sun on the picket line.

 

[Xdriver]

Forget the training contract its illegal. I went to court in Dallas and won. Flexjet had no leg so stand on and they knew it. If you want details private me. The bottom line is whatever they make you sign its been tossed out in court in Dallas county.

Hell I even won damages and my lawyer's fees

 

[Live4flyng]

Here we go again

Lear357,

Sorry to have to correct your misinformation, but a fourth year FO at FX does not make more than a 4th year Captain at NJA. As you said, the average number of days/month worked at FX is 17. At NJA it is 15.2/month.

4th year FO at FX makes $61K as you stated. 17x12=204 days worked per year. Daily rate is $299.00

4th year CA at NJA makes $58K. 15.2x12=182.4 days worked per year. Daily rate is $318.00

Since you don't have a contract, seniority is not only complex, it doesn't exist for you. Obviously you don't know much about contract negotiations either. What exactly does this mean? "QS bleeds the money for us."

Investing money into an operation for global expansion will not realize a profit immediately in the Fractional Business. It could accelerate closure for the stagnant competition though.

 

[NJA Capt]

Flexjet is doing pretty well after a rough couple of years. We had our 2nd best February ever this year. We've been profitable for the past 2 years or so - a claim our larger competitors can't make.

Maybe you should check some facts.

Reference the FAA database.
I took the liberty of saving some fleet totals going back 4 years.

In that time NJA has gained approx 150 aircraft and FlexJet had a net loss of 11. I see aircraft in Ex-Flex Lears parked all over the country.

Pretty easy to show a profit when you've taken 10 Lear 31s, 16 Lear 60s, and 7 Challengers out of the program. While gaining a whopping 18 Lear 45s and 4 Challenger 300s. How much profit do you think NJA would show if it took 1 little old BBJ out of the program?

I agree that your mighty Challenger, is a much more comfortable ride than the CX. But why have we sold 70 CXs and the max I can find for Flexjet Challengers is 24? Currently 17. It seems that Flex used to operate more than 110 a/c and is currently operating 97.

Hmmmmm.

If I could add on to what L4F said. You work 17 days per month, but your schedule is based on 28 day months (I guess days are longer in Canada?). That equates to 13 months per year. Enjoy your pay, I'd rather be home that extra month per year.