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FlexJet ?
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Good question,
It seems like Flex Jet is a huge mystery! Very little info on this company and, no one seems to want to talk about them.
Is there any one on this board that works for them that would be willing to shed some light on this company, please?
We all have an excellent picture of EJA, would some one provide the same type of usful info on the folks at Flex?
It would be greatly appreciated by myself and many others i'm sure.
Regards Mickey
It seems like Flex Jet is a huge mystery! Very little info on this company and, no one seems to want to talk about them.
Is there any one on this board that works for them that would be willing to shed some light on this company, please?
We all have an excellent picture of EJA, would some one provide the same type of usful info on the folks at Flex?
It would be greatly appreciated by myself and many others i'm sure.
Regards Mickey
Pilot's Wife
Active member
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2002
- Posts
- 33
"inside scoop"
I do not work for Flexjet, however, my husband does. Any info you want I can probably supply you with. I also know that there are other Flex pilots that subscribe to this board, however, they may be reluctant to respond since Flex is struggling right now.
The pay question is easy. FO's start out around 34,000 however, gone are the days of upgrading to captain in less than 12 months. Flex now has some 3 year FO's. The lack of upgrades and very slow/if non existant hiring since 2001 is a major source of contention within the employee ranks. If you ask the company they say all aviation has been hit by 9/11, however, if we have 3 year fO's this has been going on long before 9/11 (just for the record my husband is a captain, and I definately simpathize with the FO's). Once upgraded to captain they start at around 54,000 not including OT. The company recently sent a letter stating that there would be no raises this year because of profits (very encouraging). People who move up in seniority still get the raise for seniority but the "usual" yearly salary review and inflation increase won't happen this year. Also, we were told we weren't getting any profit sharing for 2001 (I think that's what they call it). In previous years we'd get a nice little check around Mayish, but not now. The company also claims they are being more fiscally sound in their crewing of airplanes, which is why they say they aren't doing much hiring. I can't remember the crew ratio to airplane but it is considerably down and you can get OT at anytime now, which is nice.
In spite of these problems my husband loves flying these airplanes and for the most part likes his job, excluding the days gone and some of the company's lack of employee interest. Southwest they are not! Most pilots like their jobs, but it is tough for the FO's, especially those with families, to not move up in pay and responsibility. There is definately a contigent out there that is very disgruntled. But as my husband says, he's still flying a lear (not a citation - sorry to those citation people, but that's what he says).
Any other questions, let me know.
I do not work for Flexjet, however, my husband does. Any info you want I can probably supply you with. I also know that there are other Flex pilots that subscribe to this board, however, they may be reluctant to respond since Flex is struggling right now.
The pay question is easy. FO's start out around 34,000 however, gone are the days of upgrading to captain in less than 12 months. Flex now has some 3 year FO's. The lack of upgrades and very slow/if non existant hiring since 2001 is a major source of contention within the employee ranks. If you ask the company they say all aviation has been hit by 9/11, however, if we have 3 year fO's this has been going on long before 9/11 (just for the record my husband is a captain, and I definately simpathize with the FO's). Once upgraded to captain they start at around 54,000 not including OT. The company recently sent a letter stating that there would be no raises this year because of profits (very encouraging). People who move up in seniority still get the raise for seniority but the "usual" yearly salary review and inflation increase won't happen this year. Also, we were told we weren't getting any profit sharing for 2001 (I think that's what they call it). In previous years we'd get a nice little check around Mayish, but not now. The company also claims they are being more fiscally sound in their crewing of airplanes, which is why they say they aren't doing much hiring. I can't remember the crew ratio to airplane but it is considerably down and you can get OT at anytime now, which is nice.
In spite of these problems my husband loves flying these airplanes and for the most part likes his job, excluding the days gone and some of the company's lack of employee interest. Southwest they are not! Most pilots like their jobs, but it is tough for the FO's, especially those with families, to not move up in pay and responsibility. There is definately a contigent out there that is very disgruntled. But as my husband says, he's still flying a lear (not a citation - sorry to those citation people, but that's what he says).
Any other questions, let me know.
Last edited:
LR25
Its just a vintage VW
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 1,641
I have a couple q's.
WHat is the domicile situation like, i.e. commuting etc.
Type of schedules.
You know the usual stuff.
Also that was great info from your last post, thanks, it about the most I have heard about this company from any one person.
You other Flexjet guy, don't be bashfull.
LR25
WHat is the domicile situation like, i.e. commuting etc.
Type of schedules.
You know the usual stuff.
Also that was great info from your last post, thanks, it about the most I have heard about this company from any one person.
You other Flexjet guy, don't be bashfull.
LR25
Pilot's Wife
Active member
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2002
- Posts
- 33
Right now we only have 3 gateways DFW, FLL & Teterboro (not sure the identifier). This is another big contentious subject. There is a push by many pilots to add more gateways. The company says its not cost effective at the time. Pilots think it should be more cost effective versus airlining pilots all over, but they are standing firm now. There was company talk pre 9/11 on opening Denver and a West Coast site (San Diego or San Fran. I can't remember which one) but that's been postponed indefinitely.
The schedule used to be a basic 6/4 or 7/3 bid situation. But in the last 2 months the company launched a new bid system, that doesn't seem to have all the bugs worked out yet. The theory is that you can bid whatever you want with a minimum of 15 work days a bid period and a max of 19 (I think) and then the bids are awarded according to seniority. From what I have read at the company website (employee only site) it seems that is not working. A lot of people haven't gotten their bids. So I don't know what to tell you exactly.
The company certainly doesn't reflect the growth seen by EJA or Flight Options (or whatever they are called now). The reports given by management reflect a serious concern for fiscal responsibility, which is good, but when other fractionals are growing so much and Flex seems stagnant it is worrisome. The management says that we are increasing in owners, but we don't have near the hiring rate that EJA has. It does worry the pilots, but the company says it's not always good to be like the other companies - only time will tell.
If you are looking for a lear frac job, you could also consider Avolar. The people that have posted on here that work for them seem very happy with the place - however - Avolar has ordered the Lear 45 & 60 and as I recall you showed a type in the 35/55. I don't know if they are taking on people that will need the type or not. I think your type now would work in our 31 fleet, but that fleet is diminishing and the 45 is growing. Our company will hire you without type, but you will have to sign a 2 year training contract. (BTW our fleet is 31a, 45, 60, challenger - with Global Express and continental in our future)
The schedule used to be a basic 6/4 or 7/3 bid situation. But in the last 2 months the company launched a new bid system, that doesn't seem to have all the bugs worked out yet. The theory is that you can bid whatever you want with a minimum of 15 work days a bid period and a max of 19 (I think) and then the bids are awarded according to seniority. From what I have read at the company website (employee only site) it seems that is not working. A lot of people haven't gotten their bids. So I don't know what to tell you exactly.
The company certainly doesn't reflect the growth seen by EJA or Flight Options (or whatever they are called now). The reports given by management reflect a serious concern for fiscal responsibility, which is good, but when other fractionals are growing so much and Flex seems stagnant it is worrisome. The management says that we are increasing in owners, but we don't have near the hiring rate that EJA has. It does worry the pilots, but the company says it's not always good to be like the other companies - only time will tell.
If you are looking for a lear frac job, you could also consider Avolar. The people that have posted on here that work for them seem very happy with the place - however - Avolar has ordered the Lear 45 & 60 and as I recall you showed a type in the 35/55. I don't know if they are taking on people that will need the type or not. I think your type now would work in our 31 fleet, but that fleet is diminishing and the 45 is growing. Our company will hire you without type, but you will have to sign a 2 year training contract. (BTW our fleet is 31a, 45, 60, challenger - with Global Express and continental in our future)
billboeing
Member
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2002
- Posts
- 15
You Asked for it..
I am one of the individuals who was laid off from flex, post 9-11 or 10-04. I am not going to blast the company, the facts will speak for themselves.
Pay is not a big deal, especially those of us who came from the commuters. So for me flexjet gave me a big raise. If you can't live off of thirty thousand in change what makes you think you can live off of fifty thousand in change. Whether you have a family or not.
Schedules consist of a biding system; seniority determines whether you get your 17 day pay salary or not. Since you have no guarantee. My initial schedule 6 and 4, then the company mandated a 7 and 3; finally I chose 5 and 4 since I spent to much time in the hotel room. Yes we broke down quite often. Since there is no union and contract the company can make you fly or be on duty at their will. Like my 7 and 3 which lasted nearly 3 months. Many people will tell there is a contract, the ops specs., but believe me there is no honor.
Morale is non-existant. Pilots will hang you out to dry. Since everyone is so interested in upgrade. Especially getting to the Challenger. The flight crews in general are terrific. However some have never had a pic job before and exhibit no leadership and decision making capabilities. Most people at flex are misserable and are looking to bail out.
Changing jobs is a serious matter. Especially if it involves your family. Look at flexjets financial history, management and pilot relationship ( why were pilots terminated for trying to put a union in to better the quality of life for everyone else), and growth which is negative. When I was hired there were more than 400 + when I left well try 300 in change. Domiciles and either dal, fll, teb.
Advice if you care to take. EJA is the place to be if you choose the fractional industry. You can live where you want, upgrades are held right out of training, you have a union, and most of all everyone loves being there. When I was laid off from flex, I asked what my seniority means; and you can figure out what they said. One more thing texas is the right to work state. So what is the whole point of seniority. And if your wondering what type of employee was I. Your probably asking they used the nine eleven to weed the bad apples. Well I never called in sick, I always came to work on time and commited to work extra hours, and even sold an airplane, which I received a model plane.
I know those of you at flex are going to praise your co. Explain to everyone why there is such a high attrition rate among fo and ca.
If you want more dirt,, send me a private email. I hope you make the right choice. They have called some of us back to work. Who in their right mind would go back to the crisis management center.
I am one of the individuals who was laid off from flex, post 9-11 or 10-04. I am not going to blast the company, the facts will speak for themselves.
Pay is not a big deal, especially those of us who came from the commuters. So for me flexjet gave me a big raise. If you can't live off of thirty thousand in change what makes you think you can live off of fifty thousand in change. Whether you have a family or not.
Schedules consist of a biding system; seniority determines whether you get your 17 day pay salary or not. Since you have no guarantee. My initial schedule 6 and 4, then the company mandated a 7 and 3; finally I chose 5 and 4 since I spent to much time in the hotel room. Yes we broke down quite often. Since there is no union and contract the company can make you fly or be on duty at their will. Like my 7 and 3 which lasted nearly 3 months. Many people will tell there is a contract, the ops specs., but believe me there is no honor.
Morale is non-existant. Pilots will hang you out to dry. Since everyone is so interested in upgrade. Especially getting to the Challenger. The flight crews in general are terrific. However some have never had a pic job before and exhibit no leadership and decision making capabilities. Most people at flex are misserable and are looking to bail out.
Changing jobs is a serious matter. Especially if it involves your family. Look at flexjets financial history, management and pilot relationship ( why were pilots terminated for trying to put a union in to better the quality of life for everyone else), and growth which is negative. When I was hired there were more than 400 + when I left well try 300 in change. Domiciles and either dal, fll, teb.
Advice if you care to take. EJA is the place to be if you choose the fractional industry. You can live where you want, upgrades are held right out of training, you have a union, and most of all everyone loves being there. When I was laid off from flex, I asked what my seniority means; and you can figure out what they said. One more thing texas is the right to work state. So what is the whole point of seniority. And if your wondering what type of employee was I. Your probably asking they used the nine eleven to weed the bad apples. Well I never called in sick, I always came to work on time and commited to work extra hours, and even sold an airplane, which I received a model plane.
I know those of you at flex are going to praise your co. Explain to everyone why there is such a high attrition rate among fo and ca.
If you want more dirt,, send me a private email. I hope you make the right choice. They have called some of us back to work. Who in their right mind would go back to the crisis management center.
LR25
Its just a vintage VW
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 1,641
Just Peachy
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2002
- Posts
- 189
Yeah...... the posts are pretty much right on......... managment is the problem or I should say, the lack of it. Flex has had 5 directors of Ops in 8 years. The latest one has just been moved out, and the assistant director is now in the hot seat. The fleet chief pilots are VERY lacking in experiance.
American was running the flight side of it to start with and even they couldnt do it right. EJA is the place to be if your going for the fracs.
former 5 year member of flex
American was running the flight side of it to start with and even they couldnt do it right. EJA is the place to be if your going for the fracs.
former 5 year member of flex
Pilot's Wife
Active member
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2002
- Posts
- 33
I would have to agree with what most of the pilots have said on here. Yes, they are probably a little disgruntled, but my husband still works for Flex, is a captain, and in general likes his job. But I wouldn't recommend this place to any friends. The main reason, other than lack of gateways, and heavy work schedule, is the company's lack of committment to their employees. They really exhibit an indifference to their pilots and I don't see any changes in the future
The ugrades are taking 2-3 years. I know a couple of months ago a pilot was a 3 year FO, so it is closer to 3 years.
The company did use 9/11 to weed out people. I understand some of them were not good employees, but the company is sooo anti union that I don't doubt they got rid of some of the union proponents. As the previous post stated, Texas is a right to work state and they can basically hire and fire at will, and Flexjet has excersised their right.
I want to be clear that we are not disgruntled Flex employees. They have been good to our family, however, I would closely evaluate what your personal goals are for your career before you consider this company. EJA seems to have a brighter and friendlier future now. We have a good friend that flies for them and he likes it.
If you would like more "private" info you can PM me.
The ugrades are taking 2-3 years. I know a couple of months ago a pilot was a 3 year FO, so it is closer to 3 years.
The company did use 9/11 to weed out people. I understand some of them were not good employees, but the company is sooo anti union that I don't doubt they got rid of some of the union proponents. As the previous post stated, Texas is a right to work state and they can basically hire and fire at will, and Flexjet has excersised their right.
I want to be clear that we are not disgruntled Flex employees. They have been good to our family, however, I would closely evaluate what your personal goals are for your career before you consider this company. EJA seems to have a brighter and friendlier future now. We have a good friend that flies for them and he likes it.
If you would like more "private" info you can PM me.
Semore Butts
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2002
- Posts
- 670
Pilots wife is honest, and obviously sincere. Her attitude reflects that of the pilots. It could be a fantastic place to work. The people make it a good place to work now. Flex will not be a great place to work until Montreal figures out exactly what they want to do with Flex.
When I hired in we were told Flex was trying for 2000 pilots by 2004. We have since gone from almost 500 to just below 400.
She is correct about the pay and the bonus. Her attitude about the F.O's is appreciated by myself and the other F.O.'s that are loyally serving and hoping that something will happen in the near future to turn the "plight of the F.O.'s around".
Here are some other benifits of the company;
We have a 1 for 1 match on our 401 K for up to 3% of our pay (unfortunately, when you have a house payment and a family to feed, you may not be able to take advantage of this "perk")
We have a stock purchase plan on Bombardier stock, a 20% discount on company stock (unfortunately, when you have a house payment aaand a family to feed, you may not be able to take advantage of this "perk")
We get a discount on membership at Bally's gym, and on Skidoo's, and Seadoo's since they are built by Bombardier ( unfortunately, when you have a ...... you know where I'm going with this don't you?)
We recieve Tuition assistance for college classes if it's job related (see the above ittalics, and add the fact that it's tough to go to class when your on the road 7 days at a time.
We get a cell phone that's paid for by the company, we pocket the airline miles that we get when we airline to the aircraft. We get the hotel points we get from our credit cards while on the road, and we get catering depending how long the day is.
We do have a serious morale problem, mainly because there is no way to tell in which direction the company is going. This is very disturbing.
We are being worked harder every day, and it is getting worse due to the new bid system.
The pilots are a great bunch of people, the equipment is fantastic, the job was fun, that seems like a distant memory now. We are generally wondering what management will do to us next.
The shame of it is is that most of us really liked it here, and wanted it to be a permanent job I'm trying to keep a positive attitude, but it is reall getting hard. I guess time will tell
When I hired in we were told Flex was trying for 2000 pilots by 2004. We have since gone from almost 500 to just below 400.
She is correct about the pay and the bonus. Her attitude about the F.O's is appreciated by myself and the other F.O.'s that are loyally serving and hoping that something will happen in the near future to turn the "plight of the F.O.'s around".
Here are some other benifits of the company;
We have a 1 for 1 match on our 401 K for up to 3% of our pay (unfortunately, when you have a house payment and a family to feed, you may not be able to take advantage of this "perk")
We have a stock purchase plan on Bombardier stock, a 20% discount on company stock (unfortunately, when you have a house payment aaand a family to feed, you may not be able to take advantage of this "perk")
We get a discount on membership at Bally's gym, and on Skidoo's, and Seadoo's since they are built by Bombardier ( unfortunately, when you have a ...... you know where I'm going with this don't you?)
We recieve Tuition assistance for college classes if it's job related (see the above ittalics, and add the fact that it's tough to go to class when your on the road 7 days at a time.
We get a cell phone that's paid for by the company, we pocket the airline miles that we get when we airline to the aircraft. We get the hotel points we get from our credit cards while on the road, and we get catering depending how long the day is.
We do have a serious morale problem, mainly because there is no way to tell in which direction the company is going. This is very disturbing.
We are being worked harder every day, and it is getting worse due to the new bid system.
The pilots are a great bunch of people, the equipment is fantastic, the job was fun, that seems like a distant memory now. We are generally wondering what management will do to us next.
The shame of it is is that most of us really liked it here, and wanted it to be a permanent job I'm trying to keep a positive attitude, but it is reall getting hard. I guess time will tell
LR25
Its just a vintage VW
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 1,641
Hey thanks,
By the was "Butts", I here what you are saying about the beni's, but remember this about the 401, no matter how much you can contribute, free money is free money.
Make it a point to contribute, even if it is a small amount, sooner is better than later.
Thanks for the info.
Should one leave a regoinal for Flex, that is the question for me.
LR25
By the was "Butts", I here what you are saying about the beni's, but remember this about the 401, no matter how much you can contribute, free money is free money.
Make it a point to contribute, even if it is a small amount, sooner is better than later.
Thanks for the info.
Should one leave a regoinal for Flex, that is the question for me.
LR25
Semore Butts
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2002
- Posts
- 670
Free money is great, no doubt! It's like finding a dead man in a cave with a gold coin in his hand. Oh boy the people at the"Pub" willbe impressed"! Then, there is an cave in. Try living under the coin or eating it, First we eat, then we find shelter!
Leave a regoinal? I don't know, yeah, I think so! This ia a cool job, even though personally I think we are F*%&* up, I think, no, I know we will get better in time.
But the other companies seem to be flourishing. That's what is so disturbing to me, this industry is exploding, and we seem to be floundering! I have decided that with me at the helm, the company would turn around! That's assuming the "big dogs" would back me up, which seems to be the quandry. It's like whipping a Lion with a cotton swab, it don't work, it won't work, it can't work, and you need to terminate the person doing it before they hurt themselves.
Leave a regoinal? I don't know, yeah, I think so! This ia a cool job, even though personally I think we are F*%&* up, I think, no, I know we will get better in time.
But the other companies seem to be flourishing. That's what is so disturbing to me, this industry is exploding, and we seem to be floundering! I have decided that with me at the helm, the company would turn around! That's assuming the "big dogs" would back me up, which seems to be the quandry. It's like whipping a Lion with a cotton swab, it don't work, it won't work, it can't work, and you need to terminate the person doing it before they hurt themselves.
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