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Flexjet vs Netjets

flynAAvy

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I'm too lazy to scroll through the last month of postings (I probably couldn't figure out how to do it anyway) so I'll start a new thread... . Can anyone break down the advantages/disadvantages of Flexjet and Netjets?

By the way, I refuse to pay Kit Darby any more money for his retarded magazine... God bless Flightinfo.... this website got me through a major airline hiring/furlough and gives me an endless source of entertainment while I'm pretending to work at my my new "job". Out.
 

GVFlyer

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I've known Kit since he resigned his commission and moved to Atlanta looking for an airline job...any airline job. Any money you send to Kit goes for his betterment not yours.
 

bartpearl

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Wow, that could be the loaded question of all time. I'll try to be as objective as possible:

FlexJet
#3 in size of the major Fractionals
Non-union
Upgrade times running as much as two years or more (heresay)
Flies only Bombardier equipment
Current hiring rate fairly slow

NetJets
#1 in size (bigger not necessarily better)
Union shop (Teamsters....want any legs broke?)
Upgrade in as short as 3 months or less if you want to take the chance
Lowest pay right now, but contract is in negotiations
Equipment from multiple manufacturers: Cessna, Raytheon, Falcon, Gulfstream
Currently still hiring 40+ a month with no major slowdown in sight

Hope this helps.
 

j41driver

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A friend of mine just got hired with NetJets and all of his clasmates have been told they will be assigned to the Ultra as captains. My friend hasn't heard what equipment he'll get. Do they really need captains so bad that they are hiring off the street?
 

ars225dh

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Ya, the guys that are not hired as captains don't have ATP's because they have well under 1500 hrs total time. There taking 1505 hr pilots and giving them a C500 type and ATP ride all at the same time while offering them a Captain position with Captain pay.
********************

No really, the people they're now interviewing are very well qualified. Majority with 121 experience (UAL, US airways, Unameit), or heavy mil time, or previous corporate jet PIC time.

j41driver: are all of the guys taking Capt spots, or are they SIC's with Capt pay because the most junior (and I think youngest) person elected to take a Capt spot?
 

gump88

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Your friend is mistaken!

j41driver said:
A friend of mine just got hired with NetJets and all of his clasmates have been told they will be assigned to the Ultra as captains. My friend hasn't heard what equipment he'll get. Do they really need captains so bad that they are hiring off the street?

No, they will not be ASSIGNED to the Ultra as Captains. However, if they are brave enough to bid it, I am sure they could hold the left seat immediately out of initial training. The forced upgrades occur from the TOP of the First Officer Seniority List.

gump;)
 

bartpearl

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j41driver said:
A friend of mine just got hired with NetJets and all of his clasmates have been told they will be assigned to the Ultra as captains. My friend hasn't heard what equipment he'll get. Do they really need captains so bad that they are hiring off the street?

Absolutely not. Even if the company wanted to, the contract doesn't allow it. New hires can bid Captain, and in the Ultra fleet they might even have the bid awarded, but the company is not going to let them FLY as a PIC until they have a couple hundred hours in type with the company.

When a bid is posted and they don't get enough voluntary bids to fill it, the company then has the OPTION of filling it by reverse seniority of "qualified" pilots. The way the company interprets "qualified" does not include new hires, but focuses on FO's in that fleet over a year who have not upgraded.

Your friend either mid-interpreted what he was told or someone was blowing smoke up his hindquarters.
 

msw

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Why are some NetJets FO's reluctant to bid up to Captain slots??
 

1900cpt

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There could be several reasons to not upgrade.....if your not off probation, that might be a reason. Also your schedule. If you are on the 7&7, you will loose that once you start as a captain....alot of people dont want to loose that. Finally, most f/o's are already on cpt pay, so there is no incentive ca$h wise.

I know alot of people say its not a big deal if your on probation when you upgrade, but i would prefer to be off probation myself. Just my obervations/opinion.

1900cpt
 

EJA Capt

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msw said:
Why are some NetJets FO's reluctant to bid up to Captain slots??

1. They can hold the 7/7 schedule as a high time FO, but not as a low time Capt.
2. Will not get the desired vacation, (same as #1).
3. Do not know the protocol between Capt and company yet.(Paperwork, flight releases, interaction with PMs.)
4. Haven't flown a particular jet in winter ops yet.
5. Haven't flown into high altitude airports yet, such as TEX, ASE, SUN, JAC (previously req'd before upgrade.)
6. Still on probation (12 months)
7. May not have a lot of time in the particular aircraft.
8. They have 20,000+ hours as a retired airline PIC and enjoy the slow lane with less responsibility.


These aren't the guys I worry about. I have to question the ones that want it ASAP. What's the hurry? In a career with 20,000 hours, 1000 hours SIC is a drop in the bucket.
 

jppt2000

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Upgrade at EJA

I haven't met any SIC's at EJA that have deferred upgrade at EJA simply because they were on Probation.
Besides, if you screw up the checkride you get more training.
The ones I've met simply aren't comfortable with the responsibility of PIC at EJA. Paperwork and Company Ops hopefully, are reviewed during IOE.
The junior FO's that I've met out on the road are upgrading because of the upcoming contract. They know that if they wait to see what the contract brings, (Majority of Pilots at EJA are expecting a HUGE pay increase) they will see upgrades slow as senior SIC's fill all of the bids.
Basically don't upgrade unless you know you can handle the job. Just my two cents worth, just my opinion.
 

Toploader

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Agree with the general consensus both on this board and at NJA that the PIC ride at NJA can be a probation buster.

I personally witnessed a PIC candidate on a checkride bust and then get the AX. Sure, he was a dud, but what about those who get nervous, and checkrides are sometimes sketchy, but otherwise are fantastic pilots?

What kind of self-induced pressure will a probationary PIC be under at NJA? Depends on the character and resolve of the individual mostly. It also depends on how badly NJA wants the trip done. Can you say NO to a trip while on a 5-way conference call with the company and 5 pax and an overeager-to-go F/O are looking at you?

Small things to consider, but they all add up.

Personally, I waited until my year was up for the following reasons:

1. No previous Jet time

2. Only flew 10-20 hrs per month as SIC, so not real current

3. Wanted to learn the paperwork and management side of the job better than IOE was then teaching.

4. Felt a need to see an entire year of ops with the company. De-Icing in the winter, climb gradients in the summer, etc..

5. Needed to know I was protected by the contract in case I was pressured in any way and said "NO"

6. Self-prescribed threshhold of 500 hours in the a/c prior to upgrading.

7. Wanted to see how different PIC's handled common pax issues and difficulties.

8. An unintended benefit occurred as well. As a senior F/O the opportunity to fly with junior captains was the most valuable experience I've had at NJA. I saw some problem areas ahead of time and was able to learn from their mistakes so I was free to invent new ones for myself.

Many F/O's I fly with are senior enough to bid and get PIC slots in several aircraft types, but they are waiting. If the company forces a pilot to upgrade, and this has been happening here at NJA, then that pilot's 2-year seatlock is removed. So, if a guy is in say the Ultra for 8 months, and is then forced to upgrade in type, he is no longer locked in the Ultra. Several guys have used this to bid to the Excel.

Good luck,

Toploader
 

jppt2000

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On the other side of the coin:
I too have personally witnessed, met and flown with people who busted their checkrides while they were on probation.
They were given additional training took the PIC checkride again and passed.
Again, pilots should only upgrade when they feel comfortable.
If the upgrade is a dud they will soon know in PIC training.
In my opinion, Netjets' training program is designed to produce Captains not bust people out of their jobs.
Also the pilot upgrading already has a type rating in the aircraft, if they got past the Part 135 SIC checkride the Capt. upgrade is just a review.
P.S. did it really matter if the person was a dud when they upgraded or when they waited till they were off probation?
 

gump88

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Toploader,

A very good post. I agree with all of your points. I sincerely respect your "500 in type" self-imposed rule. You are a true professional and asset to our company!!

gump
Netjets - Ultra
 

flynAAvy

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Thanks everyone... very helpful. I'll give ya'll a free supersize when you come by MickeyD's...
 
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