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FlexJet... Livin' the Dream

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Necromonger

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 2, 2005
Posts
95
May 1st.... Ok... We got this HUGE pay raise. What could possibly be wrong with that?

Let me start with: No Guarantee of a base pay structure. The back handed raise.
We were told that we could work less...OK, that's cool. If you want to work less. But we were also told that if we worked the same number of days we work now, we would see a pay raise equal to that of NJ. (I won't get into the 221 days vs. the 184 days worked issue now, but...)

WTF. Now we can't even do that. NO ONE will work 221 days this year. That equals NO ONE will make an annual income equal to NJ numbers. Period. Now, you get paid for what PBS can build for you.

Here's the equalizer. No more base pay for a bid period. It was 16 days, even if PBS could only schedule you 14 or 15 days during a vacation or training month.
Now, flex can waive you down to 13 days of pay during those months. And we MUST call to beg for more days to work so we can make bills those month. They might let us work more during those months, if it benefits the company. But, you will have to waive the work rules to get more pay.

Yes, our daily rate went up. But, now that we will be getting those rates, We are being forced to forfeit the QOL rules just to get a bigger paycheck.

Guaranteed yearly pay is a thing of the past here. It was 16 days per bid period. We were led to believe that it would be brought down to 15 days guaranteed pay. But now 3-4 times a year, Flex can bring it down to 13 days.

Thanks guys, it just keeps getting better.

Livin' the Dream. I was wondering how management would go about souring the May 1st raise. And the hits just keep on commin'.

It's just great not having a say in policy changes, and getting it straight up the A$$!!!
Come on all you non-union BIT*HES... Tell me how full of SH!T I am.
 
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You need to learn from the FLOPS folks. Every day you do not have a Union you are losing. They will take take take, and what are you going to do about it?
When FLOPS finally brought 1108 in this all stops. Status quo.
Or you can trust that management will do the right thing for you all.:rolleyes:

Good luck. You are going to need it.
 
If you are not happy with your situation, leave. Since you are comparing your pay and days worked with NJ, go work for them. I hear that they are hiring.

Necromonger said:
May 1st.... Ok... We got this HUGE pay raise. What could possibly be wrong with that?

Let me start with: No Guarantee of a base pay structure. The back handed raise.
We were told that we could work less...OK, that's cool. If you want to work less. But we were also told that if we worked the same number of days we work now, we would see a pay raise equal to that of NJ. (I won't get into the 221 days vs. the 184 days worked issue now, but...)

WTF. Now we can't even do that. NO ONE will work 221 days this year. That equals NO ONE will make an annual income equal to NJ numbers. Period. Now, you get paid for what PBS can build for you.

Here's the equalizer. No more base pay for a bid period. It was 16 days, even if PBS could only schedule you 14 or 15 days during a vacation or training month.
Now, flex can waive you down to 13 days of pay during those months. And we MUST call to beg for more days to work so we can make bills those month. They might let us work more during those months, if it benefits the company. But, you will have to waive the work rules to get more pay.

Yes, our daily rate went up. But, now that we will be getting those rates, We are being forced to forfeit the QOL rules just to get a bigger paycheck.

Guaranteed yearly pay is a thing of the past here. It was 16 days per bid period. We were led to believe that it would be brought down to 15 days guaranteed pay. But now 3-4 times a year, Flex can bring it down to 13 days.

Thanks guys, it just keeps getting better.

Livin' the Dream. I was wondering how management would go about souring the May 1st raise. And the hits just keep on commin'.

It's just great not having a say in policy changes, and getting it straight up the A$$!!!
Come on all you non-union BIT*HES... Tell me how full of SH!T I am.
 
Great advise....not.

japhy said:
If you are not happy with your situation, leave. Since you are comparing your pay and days worked with NJ, go work for them. I hear that they are hiring.

Thanks Japh. Yeah, the old "love it or leave it" attitude. Sorry, but I don't subscribe to that way of thinking. I choose to stay and make my situation better. If we succeed, life at flex will be better for all of us.

There are alot of issues here at flex. (You need to read previous posts and do a little catching up) My most recent post was just me venting and ranting. Just try'n to open up some eyes.

As for my comparing my pay and QOL to NJ, Management did that for us. They mailed us charts with our pay rate, purposely showing us what it would take to make the same as NJ. They addressed QOL issues, but recently the other shoe dropped showing us that we have to loose QOL to make more pay. Whatever.

Wake up dude. The NJ TA set the new standard. If you don't compare your pay to theirs, you can stay happy at your commuter job.
 
Fence sitter

I was a fence sitter on the union debate but this vacation/training month cut-in-pay shows some upper management's true colors. This was not presented during the road show so this is just another change after the fact that they think they will save money on. Apparently they need some glasses to correct their shortsideness.
I am a forgiving person and people do make mistakes. Let's hope they see their error so more cards aren't sent in.
 
BombJet45 said:
Let's hope they see their error so more cards aren't sent in.

Take off the blindfold. Send in your card...or nothing changes. Either way, good luck with your "situation."

Nuff said.
 
Here it goes again. japhy, I did quit Flexjet to move to Netjets after 6 yrs. 4 mo. I was a captain for 5 yrs. 5 mo. There were good pilots and good things about Flexjet. I am not here to bash Flex but after reading the contract at Netjets and carefully paying attention to what was coming from Waterview I made a long term decision that I would be better off here. Every day that I'm here I'm more convinced I made the right decision. QOL and working conditions or much better, as is moral. Every single pilot I've met here so far has Netjets and our owners best interest at heart.The thing is we demand to be treated as professionals and have input in areas that improve company performance. One more thing, the rules don't change all the time here. With your love it or leave it attitude, you deserve what's coming your way.
 
Bottom line: If we all had Japhy's attitude, NJA wouldn't be the place to go either. Nor would Fedex. Or UPS. Or SWA. Or.........well, you get the picture.
 
Check outhttp://www.unionfacts.com to learn about the real Teamsters.

Question for U-Can-Do. How long is your upgrade time at Net Jets? I'm sure you took a huge pay cut to jump ship after 6+ years. I can say you'd be closing in on a CL-300 slot soon. 221 days less your 3 weeks vacation = 206 days per year = a realistic Buck-and-a quarter annually.

Necromonger you're blowin' smoke. 17 day lines are easily available. 15 day lines seem realistic too unless I'm working the PBS wrong and just getting lucky.

Make sure you read http://www.unionfacts.com
 
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pers-headwall said:
Check outhttp://www.unionfacts.com to learn about the real Teamsters.

Question for U-Can-Do. How long is your upgrade time at Net Jets? I'm sure you took a huge pay cut to jump ship after 6+ years. I can say you'd be closing in on a CL-300 slot soon. 221 days less your 3 weeks vacation = 206 days per year = a realistic Buck-and-a quarter annually.

Necromonger you're blowin' smoke. 17 day lines are easily available. 15 day lines seem realistic too unless I'm working the PBS wrong and just getting lucky.

Make sure you read http://www.unionfacts.com[/quote Hello Rick, How is office life treating you.
 
After you read about unionfacts... make sure you read some management facts by reading all about ENRON.

Make sure you read Confessions of a Union Buster by Marty Levvitt.

Make sure you read about how BEFORE 9/11, aviation managements lobbied against the Security improvements recommended by the GORE Commission ... that might have prevented the terrorist incident.

Make sure you read about how FAR 135 managements ganged up together to fight against 135 Prospective Rest and Duty limitations. http://www.law.emory.edu/1circuit/aug99/99-1888.01a.html

What you should do is check out IBT1108. You just would not believe how great this organization is.
 
pers-headwall said:
Check outhttp://www.unionfacts.com to learn about the real Teamsters.

Question for U-Can-Do. How long is your upgrade time at Net Jets? I'm sure you took a huge pay cut to jump ship after 6+ years. I can say you'd be closing in on a CL-300 slot soon. 221 days less your 3 weeks vacation = 206 days per year = a realistic Buck-and-a quarter annually.

Necromonger you're blowin' smoke. 17 day lines are easily available. 15 day lines seem realistic too unless I'm working the PBS wrong and just getting lucky.

Make sure you read http://www.unionfacts.com

What a complete idiot :D.

You make me....laugh.
 
Who's Blowin'?

pers-headwall said:
Check out...to learn about the real Teamsters.

Question for U-Can-Do. How long is your upgrade time at Net Jets? I'm sure you took a huge pay cut to jump ship after 6+ years. I can say you'd be closing in on a CL-300 slot soon. 221 days less your 3 weeks vacation = 206 days per year = a realistic Buck-and-a quarter annually.

Necromonger you're blowin' smoke. 17 day lines are easily available. 15 day lines seem realistic too unless I'm working the PBS...

Ok, Now we’ve had our Moronic Management update.

I may have been letting out some steam, but Blowin’ smoke…no; You guys in the office do plenty of that. I just posted what we can realistically expect from the new bidding rules you guys have implemented. I’ll leave the smoke and mirrors to you.

How about qualifying your Numbers on days worked?
So, you say 206 days a year….(221days – 3weeks of vac.) by saying this, you admit our pay raise was based on 221 days. (Thanks)
U-Can-Do will eventually have those 3 weeks of Vacation (by the way, that’s 21 days on the 7-7), and take that away from 184days a year…..Oh my, that’s 163days worked. Now, Pers-Headbald, were you try’n to make us feel good about that 206 number(after vacation)
:bomb:
Go back to the shed… Waterview is missing some TOOLS.


Should I put forth the Company Cheer?

RA.. RA… RA… FlexJet’s such a Gas!!!
RA… RA… RA… They’re stickin’ it right up my A___!!!

And you say I’m blowin’ SMOKE… Dude, I need some of what you’re smokin’, then maybe I’ll feel good about this screw job too.
 
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Take it easy on the humor. I'm bustin' a gut just reading the responses. That http://www.unionfacts.com web sight must have really struck a raw nerve.

By the way, I ain't at the Waterview and I ain't folically challenged,unlike that 6+ year flex captain that is flying F.O. at Net Jets.

I still hear crickets!
 
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Not impressed with that website at all. NJ management posted the same tired old site.

This is what impresses me...

http://www.law.emory.edu/1circuit/aug99/99-1888.01a.html

50 nonscheduled 135 carriers trying to cheat on 135 prospective rest regulations that a Teamster pilot forced the FAA to enforce.

and...

121 carriers lobbying against security recommendations of the Gore Commission that could have prevented 9/11.

Public Citizen | Congress Watch | Congress Watch - Delay, Dilute and Discard: How the Airline Industry and the FAA ... [URL="http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/sch/bn/nw2.gif"]http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/sch/bn/nw2.gif[/URL]
... The Gore Commission recommended several measures to improve screening company ... to convert Gore Commission recommendations to regulations. These airlines and the ATA employed 210 ...


If you are not obeying 135/91k prospective rest... you need a union....
 
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http://www.unionfacts.com

gunfyter said:
Not impressed with that website at all...

This is what impresses me...

50 nonscheduled 135 carriers trying to cheat on 135 prospective rest regulations that a Teamster pilot forced the FAA to enforce.

and...

121 carriers lobbying against security recommendations of the Gore Commission that could have prevented 9/11.


Nice deflection shot gunnie...

The www.unionfacts.com site doesn't impress you, but you can't refute the facts posted there so you respond with some inflammatory press on another subject entirely.

Apparently, OP/ED becomes fact when it serves to direct attention away from the well supported facts on the anti-union website and toward issues guaranteed to strike an emotional response from pilots.
 
GEX,

many of the same "Facts" can be attritbuted to Managements.... for example involvement with Crime and Corruption.... Just ask the NY AG who seems to be making a career of lawsuits against corrupt and criminal managements....

Union workers and other workers have been victimized by criminal management and by criminals who infiltrated union leadership positions. Don't blame the victim.

Crime is neither the purpose of management or union leadership....

But you can see by the management attempts to fight 135 rest regulations anfd the ATA attempts to compomise SECURITY improvements.... That Pilots need a powerful Voice... in this equation.

A well run union is the way to get a voice at the table
 
One more time for the slower learners among us: There's corruption EVERYWHERE. In the unions (not just Teamsters)? Yes? in management? Yes. in our schools? Yes. In our government (do you really need an answer to this one?)? Yes. How about in the good old American family? Do spouses cheat on each other? Isn't that corrpution?

So what's my point? Simply that just because some folks are prone to corruption doesn't mean everyone is. So, some individuals in the Teamsters organization are corrupt. Big deal. An honest, transparent, and forthcoming local of the Teamsters got us a nice contract at NJA. Didn't hurt us or cost us anything extra.

Sorry Pers, your argument holds no water. If everyone were to stay away from organizations that have some corruption in them, we'd all go to......uhh.....well, where exactly would we go to? Should we leave the country? Pull our kids out of the corrupt school system? Never try to have a family? What? Put as many links to anti-union websites as you like, it really has no bearing on whether any organization will end up with a union. In fact, the biggest factor in unions forming is how management treats its employees!

Think about that. Think hard. Ask yourself why NJI doesn't have a union but NJA does? How are the folks in each organization treated by management? Do you think if the pilots at NJI were treated like crap that they'd be non-union? Just some tobacco for your pipe.
 

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