FlexJet... Livin' the Dream

[pers-headwall]

Take it easy on the humor. I'm bustin' a gut just reading the responses. That http://www.unionfacts.com web sight must have really struck a raw nerve.

By the way, I ain't at the Waterview and I ain't folically challenged,unlike that 6+ year flex captain that is flying F.O. at Net Jets.

I still hear crickets!

 

[gunfyter]

Not impressed with that website at all. NJ management posted the same tired old site.

This is what impresses me...

http://www.law.emory.edu/1circuit/aug99/99-1888.01a.html

50 nonscheduled 135 carriers trying to cheat on 135 prospective rest regulations that a Teamster pilot forced the FAA to enforce.

and...

121 carriers lobbying against security recommendations of the Gore Commission that could have prevented 9/11.

Public Citizen | Congress Watch | Congress Watch - Delay, Dilute and Discard: How the Airline Industry and the FAA ... [URL="http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/sch/bn/nw2.gif"]http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/sch/bn/nw2.gif[/URL]
... The Gore Commission recommended several measures to improve screening company ... to convert Gore Commission recommendations to regulations. These airlines and the ATA employed 210 ...


​

If you are not obeying 135/91k prospective rest... you need a union....

 

[GEXDriver]

http://www.unionfacts.com

Not impressed with that website at all...

This is what impresses me...

50 nonscheduled 135 carriers trying to cheat on 135 prospective rest regulations that a Teamster pilot forced the FAA to enforce.

and...

121 carriers lobbying against security recommendations of the Gore Commission that could have prevented 9/11.

Nice deflection shot gunnie...

The www.unionfacts.com site doesn't impress you, but you can't refute the facts posted there so you respond with some inflammatory press on another subject entirely.

Apparently, OP/ED becomes fact when it serves to direct attention away from the well supported facts on the anti-union website and toward issues guaranteed to strike an emotional response from pilots.

 

[gunfyter]

GEX,

many of the same "Facts" can be attritbuted to Managements.... for example involvement with Crime and Corruption.... Just ask the NY AG who seems to be making a career of lawsuits against corrupt and criminal managements....

Union workers and other workers have been victimized by criminal management and by criminals who infiltrated union leadership positions. Don't blame the victim.

Crime is neither the purpose of management or union leadership....

But you can see by the management attempts to fight 135 rest regulations anfd the ATA attempts to compomise SECURITY improvements.... That Pilots need a powerful Voice... in this equation.

A well run union is the way to get a voice at the table

 

[realityman]

One more time for the slower learners among us: There's corruption EVERYWHERE. In the unions (not just Teamsters)? Yes? in management? Yes. in our schools? Yes. In our government (do you really need an answer to this one?)? Yes. How about in the good old American family? Do spouses cheat on each other? Isn't that corrpution?

So what's my point? Simply that just because some folks are prone to corruption doesn't mean everyone is. So, some individuals in the Teamsters organization are corrupt. Big deal. An honest, transparent, and forthcoming local of the Teamsters got us a nice contract at NJA. Didn't hurt us or cost us anything extra.

Sorry Pers, your argument holds no water. If everyone were to stay away from organizations that have some corruption in them, we'd all go to......uhh.....well, where exactly would we go to? Should we leave the country? Pull our kids out of the corrupt school system? Never try to have a family? What? Put as many links to anti-union websites as you like, it really has no bearing on whether any organization will end up with a union. In fact, the biggest factor in unions forming is how management treats its employees!

Think about that. Think hard. Ask yourself why NJI doesn't have a union but NJA does? How are the folks in each organization treated by management? Do you think if the pilots at NJI were treated like crap that they'd be non-union? Just some tobacco for your pipe.

 

[gunfyter]

Exactly the point Reality.

If I wanted to build a website called CorruptManagementFacts.com ... I could blow away any attack site on unions.

I am a churchgoer but I am sure I could build a CorruptPriestsandPastors.com website. PedifileTeachers.com site etc..

I still go to church, send my kids to school, and I still go to work and pay my union dues.

When it comes to IBT1108.... Those are the Best dollars I spend aside from what I tithe to the church.

The anti-union website reveals more about the slimyness of the Union Busters than anything else.

If you want to know why unions are needed, read Confessions of a Union Buster to see how low some managements will go to screw their employees.

 

[netjetwife]

Excellent posts by RealityMan and Gunfyter! A look at paychecks and QOL will tell you if a union is needed or not. For those lucky enough to have the first 2, I'd still recommend that you get it in writing. Those who aren't too fearful or selfish will choose to join with their peers and demand to be treated/compensated like the professionals they are. Just how bad does it have to get at Flex for the non-union crowd to see the light? Every day that y'all delay is money lost and opportunity wasted.

We're a democracy. Flex pilots, let your fellow pilots call for a vote.

The only fair way to judge 1108 is by their own track record--no one else's.

 

[Majik]

I'll add one more thought. 5 years ago I remember scores of FLOPs pilots that said they didn't need a union because management promised them "NetJets Pilot Pay Plus 15%" if they would not unionize. Score one more for management...

 

[netjetwife]

The road to a fair/good contract is often littered with broken promises, isn't it? The NJ pilots certainly saw their share. One hopes that other frac pilots could learn from the NJ experience and recognize the foot-dragging for what it is. As the NJ pilots and their families will tell the Flex pilots, nothing will change until they force the issue. Management certainly isn't interested; they prefer the lop-sided situation.

Nice to see you posting, Majik! I hope there has been some progress made in your own situation. I'm pulling for you.
L/NJW

 

[pers-headwall]

Netjetwife, you're babbling as usual. What makes you think it's so bad at Flex? Is it flawless? no. Can we improve? sure. Why do I need the corrupt Teamsters to represent me? If Flex were making Exxon/Mobile type profits and management was taking obscene bonuses then you might persuade me further. I don't see that. Nor do I see signs of "corruption". I know we aren't bleeding red ink, unlike some of our competitors. Try getting yourself out in the real world sometime and work for a living. I'm open to new ideas, but no one has convinced me of a need for IBT1108.

By the way, when you respond try not to use "cool-aid". That term is old and lame. Try something new and creative.

 

[Ultra Grump]

Why do I need the corrupt Teamsters to represent me?

The "corrupt Teamsters" wouldn't be representing you. Your own peers at Flex would be. Unless you're implying that your co-workers are also corrupt?

 

[Necromonger]

Cool-aide

Netjetwife, you're babbling as usual. What makes you think it's so bad at Flex? Is it flawless? no. Can we improve? sure. Why do I need the corrupt Teamsters to represent me? If Flex were making Exxon/Mobile type profits and management was taking obscene bonuses then you might persuade me further. I don't see that. Nor do I see signs of "corruption". I know we aren't bleeding red ink, unlike some of our competitors. Try getting yourself out in the real world sometime and work for a living. I'm open to new ideas, but no one has convinced me of a need for IBT1108.

By the way, when you respond try not to use "cool-aid". That term is old and lame. Try something new and creative.

You say NJW is babbling. It’s your opinion. But, try reading the “babble” before you respond to it. You make it sound as if her post compares Flex to Exxon/Mobile corp. Get real. I guess you did answer her question about how bad you think it needs to get before you’ll open your eyes.
Her posts come down to 3 key issues: Work Rules, QOL, and Fair Market Pay.

Management threw us a steak, hoping to pacify the masses. You must be happy with it. That’s fine. Just realize, the meat is getting cut away. Soon, we’ll be left with just a bone. And, we all know where they’re gonna stick that. If you don’t see it by now, you won’t.

No one has said we need a union because of corruption or huge bonuses for the higher ups. Management needs to be held to their word. They nickel and dime us. Then, waste huge amounts of money in other areas. (if you have to ask….)

You sound like you’re happy. I am too, for the most part. But, we do need some changes to make this a better place:

• Calling us 3-4 times on our last day off with changes to day one of a rotation.
• Early AM calls on day one with more changes.
• No true yearly guarantee in min. days worked for pay.
• 16hr. last day to get you home.
• Changes just happen, without any crew input.

The list goes on. Feel free to add to it.

And, no, the Teamsters will not represent us. We will come together, and represent ourselves. Hence,” LOCAL” IBT1108.

 

[ArtVandalay]

NECRO,

Pers-headwall is either:

A. New hire that just retired from the airlines after 30 years
B. Newly upgraded to Captain

I am completely convinced that Flexjet hires these burnout airline retirees just to keep the union out. I am so sick of these guys eating the jobs that the younger folks NEED. RETIRE ALREADY YOU WRINKLED OLD BURNOUTS. Why in gods name would you want to continue working after you just retired from the airlines? I just heard they hired a guy that was a 777 captain at american. Losers.

 

[B19 Flyer]

50 nonscheduled 135 carriers trying to cheat on 135 prospective rest regulations that a Teamster pilot forced the FAA to enforce.

and...

121 carriers lobbying against security recommendations of the Gore Commission that could have prevented 9/11.

If you are not obeying 135/91k prospective rest... you need a union....

These carriers are lobbying to MAINTAIN existing interpretations of existing rest rules that have been in existence for decades. Read the Federal Register entry and become informed. Nobody is cheating, there is far too much oversight of all carriers at the federal level. On demand carriers have always been able to consider late passenger arrival as "unforeseen" circumstances to extend a flight day. The unions want to change the prior interpretation to meet what they consider their own working rules.

http://web.nbaa.org/public/ops/FAA-2005-23438.pdf


Changing these interpretations and bowing down to union pressure is what happened with Whitlow and it created chaos amongst scheduled 121 carriers.

By changing the existing interpretations and the way companies do business in the on-demand world today to the "prospective" look back as defined by Whitlow, will leave paying customers stranded and increase the cost to the carriers by needing to charter more or increase the amount of crews necessary to cover flights. Where does this "cost" get passed on to? The carriers and less payroll for the pilots because there are more pilots sharing the same pot because it takes more pilots to operate the fleet.
____________________________________________
Now, on the second uninformed comment, read this NPRM (Notice of Proposed Rulemaking) published in July of 2001 with an implementation date of November, 2001. Security Laws were already being implemented before 9-11 that may very well helped to prevent it fromm happening. Just didn't have it done in time.


http://onlinepubs.trb.org/onlinepubs/security/FAR_108.pdf

You gotta read the exact documents and interpret and understand this stuff clearly. There is no conspiricy to keep pilots from being successful or from having a good quality life.

Be careful what you ask for, and ask any Chief Pilot of Pilot manager once they are moved from the line to the inside if unions benefit the company as a whole. These are the folks that get to see both sides of the picture, and one must be fully informed before they can make a good qualified decision.

 

[BombJet45]

-- I am completely convinced that Flexjet hires these burnout airline retirees just to keep the union out. I am so sick of these guys eating the jobs that the younger folks NEED. RETIRE ALREADY YOU WRINKLED OLD BURNOUTS. Why in gods name would you want to continue working after you just retired from the airlines? I just heard they hired a guy that was a 777 captain at american. Losers. --

Art,

The old retired airline pilots at Netjets were one of the strongest proponents for the union. As far as them continuing to fly, that is their choice and right. You don't know everyone's situation so why don't you grow up, stop the ignorance, and quit the name calling.