Flexjet is through all recalls, hiring off street soon.

[realityman]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but there is another advantage for the pilots who could change aircraft: obtaining another valuable type rating.

Yeah, okay, spending the training money on pilots when they don't have to does make sense to the company.

But to say there's no benefit to the pilots to switch planes when there's no difference in pay isn't quite right.

It becomes very valuable to have a type in a newer, bigger aircraft if things go bad at Flex, or the pilot wants to move on.

We're dealing with some major out-of-seniority issues at NJA right now (sorry, not going to post details), but there's quite a bit more involved than money.

 

[Photoflight]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but there is another advantage for the pilots who could change aircraft: obtaining another valuable type rating.

Yeah, okay, spending the training money on pilots when they don't have to does make sense to the company.

But to say there's no benefit to the pilots to switch planes when there's no difference in pay isn't quite right.

It becomes very valuable to have a type in a newer, bigger aircraft if things go bad at Flex, or the pilot wants to move on.

We're dealing with some major out-of-seniority issues at NJA right now (sorry, not going to post details), but there's quite a bit more involved than money.

I really meant while employed at Flex since all FOs are paid the same regardless of type. If your looking to gather types it certainly doesn't.

I know the seniority/scheduling issue exists and understand that but with the way the bid system worked(s?) seniority is somewhere down the list.

 

[fugazi]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but there is another advantage for the pilots who could change aircraft: obtaining another valuable type rating.

Yeah, okay, spending the training money on pilots when they don't have to does make sense to the company.

But to say there's no benefit to the pilots to switch planes when there's no difference in pay isn't quite right.

It becomes very valuable to have a type in a newer, bigger aircraft if things go bad at Flex, or the pilot wants to move on.


indeed, good points! In some cases it would have not saved them any money because, they have called back (recently) guys with 45 types and put them in the 300. So we are talking recurrent for the rehire and new type in seniority. Im just saying!! Oh and, another awesome fact..they have allowed all of the 60 FOs to choose the 300 or 605 transition.

 

[CL300Pilot]

Fugazi,

Regardless of what fleet the new hires/recalled pilots were in prior to leaving the property, anyone who is brought back on property must go through a complete new hire process including a full aircraft type. Therefore, from a company standpoint, it cost more to move guys from the 45 to the 300/605 and then type new hires back into the 45.

In regards to the 60 drivers, only 4 were true FO's. The other 6 were CAFO's who have now been fully downgraded. Yet, there are still 4 or 5 45 CAFO's who can still do CA trips. So maybe the company threw those 6 a bone. Also,as long as I have been here, it has always been company need, just look at the current seniority list.

 

[fugazi]

Fugazi,

Regardless of what fleet the new hires/recalled pilots were in prior to leaving the property, anyone who is brought back on property must go through a complete new hire process including a full aircraft type. Therefore, from a company standpoint, it cost more to move guys from the 45 to the 300/605 and then type new hires back into the 45.

In regards to the 60 drivers, only 4 were true FO's. The other 6 were CAFO's who have now been fully downgraded. Yet, there are still 4 or 5 45 CAFO's who can still do CA trips. So maybe the company threw those 6 a bone. Also,as long as I have been here, it has always been company need, just look at the current seniority list.

So what you're saying is that if you were let go last year, and you were in the 45, already typed..you would then have to go through another full 45 type?!?! I bet you're right but still, that's absolutely ridiculous. I guess it's a good thing you're already in the 300 because, I bet you'd be a little pissed if you were sitting where I am watching the new guys pass you by. It wasn't a big deal before because you upgraded relatively quickly. I bet we don't see any significant movement for 5 years(especially if you're on the bottom of the list)

 

[DUATS]

I haven't gotten a call, and I am right in the middle of the list. If there is a list.

 

[CL300Pilot]

So what you're saying is that if you were let go last year, and you were in the 45, already typed..you would then have to go through another full 45 type?!?! QUOTE]

Yes, that is what I am saying. Once you terminate under 135, you must go through the complete new hire and type process. That is why it does not matter if you had a type in aircraft. One of the recalls just went through 300 recurrent 3 or 4 months ago and must go through a complete initial again.

The lack of movement does in fact suck, but notice we are the only ones hiring. I believe it is partly due to us being as busy as you know we are and due to attrition. Who knows what is going to happen when the 75's start to come and the 85, if they ever get that thing flying.

:beer:

 

[Heavy Set]

Who's gonna crew the Lear 70, 75 and the "bad-a$$ Lear 85" as they arrive? I thought the Lear 45 & 60 would gradually disappear as the newer Lears arrived?

BTW, I see the company's economic argument about not paying for new type ratings at a company when pay levels are the same - you basically pay for two new types with non-typed newhires and upgrades. That said, it is a d!ck move for the loyal pilots who have remained during the tough times. Keeping loyal and productive pilots who understand the service requirements should be a top priority, but management probably couldn't care less.

Someone else on these boards mentioned Spirit is hiring fractional pilots and AA/UAL/DAL will all be hiring in the next 6-12 months. If you can stomach the lowish first year pay, perhaps something to consider. Just food for thought...

 

[DirtyBeech]

It's being considered by quite a few. FJ puts QOL right behind safety which is to say that it's important as long as it doesn't interfere with profit or convenience. This place is dedicated to being average. They love making committees, taking surveys and then doing absolutely nothing.

I understand the economics of the new hires and recalls. It doesn't mean I have to like it, and it doesn't mean that FJ will ever figure out how much money happy employees would save them over time.

Putting new hires in the 604 is a mistake. That's the most cake job in the company for an FO. Those people go to the Lears and have no idea what work is or how to make decisions.

45 crews will transition to th75 as it comes on line and you can bet that the 85 will be the home of all the remaining 60 guys. They'll probably new hire into that as well and leave the Lear trash to wilt.

 

[can99]

But the letter they sent us ie the 'alumni' as it called us all this week could have maybe better written. It was a real thanks for playing, if you want to come play again we are happy to let you apply .. it didnt give the warm fuzzies one would expect.

I would have thought they would ask all furloughed pilots to apply then open the public application window not just throw everyone into the same trash can of applications.