Flexjet info...

[gunfyter]

I have done all I can to help you. FSDO can't interpret for the adminsitrator or Chief Counsel.

1 The flight time limitation rules applicable to "major scheduled
air carriers" and "other airlines operating large transport category
airplanes" are contained in Part 121 of the FAR. The flight time
limitation rules applicable to scheduled air carriers operating air-
planes of 30 or fewer seats and air taxi operations are contained in
Part 135 of the FAR. The substance of the rules in Parts 121 and
135 is essentially the same and the rules are likewise interpreted

================================
Definition of: AIR TAXI An aircraft operator who conducts operations for hire or compensation in accordance with FAR Part 135 in an aircraft with 30 or fewer passenger seats and a payload capacity of 7,500# or less. An air taxi operates on an on demand basis and does not meet the "flight scheduled" qualifications of a commuter





​

 

[gunfyter]

Upon completion of the flight, the pilot may not accept his next assignment unless he is first given 10 hours rest. As indicated above FAR Sec. 135.267(d) requires that the pilot be given 10 hours of rest during the 24 hour period preceding the planned completion of an assignment.


​

But what is 10 hrs of rest?

A crew goes into rest at 1800L after a day of flying and assigned a trip with a 0900L showtime for the next morning. 10 hrs after going into rest it is now 0400L. If the crew must respond to pager or telephone call starting after 0400L in the event an earlier popup trip comes up... but in this case the popup trip does not come up....

When does the Rest period end? At 0400L or at 0900l when the crew shows up for the trip briefed before rest began?

The answer is: Rest ended at 0400L, when the crew become responsible for answering the phone or page and to report in the event a fligt assignment popped up. The crew must be in rest again by 1800L.

The time between 0400 and 0900L when the crew had to respond to pager or phone does not count as REST. The crew is now available for flight only from 0900L to 1800L or 9 hrs of duty not 14 hrs.

see http://www.law.emory.edu/1circuit/aug99/99-1888.01a.html


So... how many of these crews wondering in they can fly past 14 hrs duty time, even had a legal 10 hr rest period in the first place?

 

[macpilot]

do I have to read all that

 

[Fozzy]

do I have to read all that

Not only should you read it, but if you consider yourself a professional you should also understand and follow it.

I always get a chuckle thinking back to the crew sitting in the MKE Sig. Pilot 1 asking Pilot 2 if he was okay calling their time sitting in the crew room all day as their rest period. Gota love that.

Hey Gunfyter, the question we need to know is if they don't answer the phone after 10 hours of "rest" will they ever upgrade or be able to "bid" a different fleet. :laugh:

 

[mamba20]

How do you apply? I went on the website and filled out an exhausting application but I never heard anything back. Anyone know the way to do it?

 

[kingairyahoo]

well dam gunfyter...how then do the 24/7 on-call operators get away with it???

 

[gunfyter]

well dam gunfyter...how then do the 24/7 on-call operators get away with it???

They Cheat... and there is no enforcement.

 

[kingairyahoo]

i wonder if pilotyip will chime in...

 

[kingairyahoo]

actually, theres quite an in-depth conversation going on over this very subject...

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=80521

 

[b350capt]

Unfortunately incorrect..

It is not possible to go more than 14 hours for any delay that is caused before you cross the hold short line for T/O on 135 or 91K flights....

as long as the flight was SCHEDULED to leave inside of 14 hours and the planning was realistic, you are legal to depart. even if you take-off after 14 hours due to taxi delays or flow restrictions, passengers, or cargo. of course you've got to consider careless and reckless. (FAA Interpretation 1990-40 & 1991-16 & 1992-19)

 

[hammer2]

as long as the flight was SCHEDULED to leave inside of 14 hours and the planning was realistic, you are legal to depart. even if you take-off after 14 hours due to taxi delays or flow restrictions, passengers, or cargo. of course you've got to consider careless and reckless. (FAA Interpretation 1990-40 & 1991-16 & 1992-19)

Read these, and have had them read to me. Although I don't agree with it, it is how Flex and about 99% of other operators interperate this reg. Until the Satan changes his rules, we will tip over 14 hrs every once in a while. Its the 10 hrs in the last 24 everybody is worried about.

 

[b350capt]

thats right, its unfortunate. Im hoping that the new proposed changes, which spell out that late passengers are NOT outside of the control of the certificate holder come out in the next decade. But i'm not holding my breath. And the 10 hours is dependant on the definition of accepting a trip......is a trip the inital assignment (since the 10 in 24 is based on the projected completion point).....or is it the actual choice to move the aircraft? Of course I prefer to think its based on moving the aircraft, ha ha. And theres always the careless and reckless / fatigue call. The endless debate/struggle continues.....good versus evil......light versus dark.....pilots versus duty time

 

[gunfyter]

You obviously did not read the court cases I posted. And you did not read the Whitlow letter.

The reason those cases were filed is the operators were crying the FAA had substantially changed its Interpretation. But the Court disagreed.

Air Transport
Association of America, Inc. (ATA) and Regional Airline
Association (RAA) seek review of the Federal Aviation Ad-
ministration's November 20, 2000 interpretation (issued by

letter) of Federal Aviation Regulation 121.471, 14 C.F.R.
s 121.471 (FAR 121.471), and attendant Notice of Enforce-
ment Policy (Notice) entitled "Flight Crewmember Flight
Time Limitations and Rest Requirements," published in the
Federal Register, 66 Fed. Reg. 27,548 (May 17, 2001). ATA
contends the letter interpretation and Notice are inconsistent
with the plain language of FAR 121.471. In addition, ATA
maintains that the letter interpretation constitutes a substan-
tive change to FAR 121.471 and, accordingly, requires notice-
and-comment rulemaking under the Administrative Proce-
dure Act (APA), 5 U.S.C. ss 551 et seq. We disagree.


zip....
The substance of the rules in Parts 121 and
135 is essentially the same and the rules are likewise interpreted


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Notice that 2001 is more current than the interpretations you cited.

I would not want to be the operator or the flight crew involvd in a lawsuit brought against me because of an accident that occurred after I operated the airplane beyond 14 hts duty because of late pax!

 

[kingairyahoo]

I would not want to be the operator or the flight crew involvd in a lawsuit brought against me because of an accident that occurred after I operated the airplane beyond 14 hts duty because of late pax!

bingo...and i dont know how these guys are defending late pax as "beyond their control".

if the pax show up late, the plane doesnt move...that is not beyond any pilots control.

 

[gunfyter]

Also 91K flights are under the Operational Control of the passengers....

So they definitely have control.