FlexJet Flies out of the red.

[FoxJet]

Great!

I'm happy to hear that Flex is doing so well, it's great for them and the industry. What I'm unhappy to hear and I think a lot of the NJ animosity is coming from is that this B.S. article is quoting 2005 numbers and down playing NJ superiority in the industry.

 

[jtf]

I hope Flex is making money so they can afford to beat the NJA contract. Then NJA 1108 can use that as a goal to beat in the next round of negotiations. A good contract raises the bar for the other guys to beat and keeps us all moving forward.

 

[Number$Cruncher]

rumrnr78,

Please stay off the sauce before posting -- I never asked about your 401k matching or retirement plan. Also, don't forget that Enron had a generous retirement plan backed up by its stock, and we all know how that one turned out. So don't count your chickens (or in this case, pension) before they hatch. My point was this:

Over the last three years, Flexjet has been claiming it has been profitable. So is the latest story that they're profitable correct, or the any of the ones published over the past three years? They can't all be correct, as the latest story says the company has finally become profitable (not in the past tense, but present tense). This was my point by posting the AIN story from earlier this year.


Also, what constitutes profitability? Note the reference to AIN story that says it was "operationally" profitable. Include sales and general overhead, and, poof, they're no longer profitable. Even then as now, Flexjet has not provided any publicly released financial numbers to show it really is profitable this time. And the Bombardier filings do not break out Flexjet from the balance sheet, so who really knows if Flex is profitable. If Flexjet has claimed profitability in the past but was just bluffing, then how do we know the company is not bluffing again? The answer is that we don't. Take that to the bank...or not.

Don't forget the "bump in accounting" that's mentioned. Until NET margin (after taxes, interest, overhead and EVERYTHING else) reaches a risk-adjusted comparable rate of return, it's not a successful investment. Right now they're all lucky to breakeven on an "operating" basis, including share sales but excluding non-operating expenses. Fortunately for the fractional pilot ranks the client base is extremely influencial and the costs to dissolve a program are very, very high...

 

[NETFLIER]

the flex ownership will never pay the pilots until they stand up and stop being the "jetbluers" of the industry. Unless they unionize, stop answering the phone durring rest, and make the company operate in the "proper" manner, nothing will come of the place. 100 airplanes is the max they will ever have.

Most of the pilots there are freight dogs who think its the best thing ever to come and dont know how much better it can get.

I have been a flex pilot, I have talked with flex pilots, I know someone on the inside.. The above is a pinch of opinion combined with known facts.

 

[bailey3083]

*hijack*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcy5drEOdjU

*you may have your bitch thread back*

 

[doylehargraves]

real mature...

I prefer this one though.......



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpHphn1APts

 

[ksu_aviator]

the flex ownership will never pay the pilots until they stand up and stop being the "jetbluers" of the industry. Unless they unionize, stop answering the phone durring rest, and make the company operate in the "proper" manner, nothing will come of the place. 100 airplanes is the max they will ever have.

Most of the pilots there are freight dogs who think its the best thing ever to come and dont know how much better it can get.

I have been a flex pilot, I have talked with flex pilots, I know someone on the inside.. The above is a pinch of opinion combined with known facts.

If you really want to go there, let's go there.

Year 2 NJA captain on the small jets is 61+K. Year 1 (2nd year with company) Flex captain on the Lear would make $74+K if they worked as many days as a NJA captain. Flex pilots have a more flexible schedule (although knowing your schedule a year in advance is good) have a pension (NJA doesn't) and the same matching on their 401K as NJA. Flex pilots pay for health care, but the company just decreased the employee input by 20% or more and have stock options.

You can hoot and hollar all you want about how great your job is, but don't bitch and moan about how bad some one's job is if they like their job. I, for one, am glad you left. If you are anything like your post above I wouldn't want to be forced to sit in a cockpit with you for 6 days!

BTW...that wonderful union you have is going to make you unhappy. They have to! How else can they get enough power to negotiate with the company? With out some level of discomfort amoung the pilots, the Union is weak and useless. Keep that in mind as you become less fond of your job over the next five years and always ask yourself, am I unhappy or have I been told I'm unhappy?

 

[JustInfo]

Year 2 capt pay at NJA is not an issue if you don't upgrade until 3+ years. Glad to hear you can upgrade in year 1 at flex.

Also curious how many days you are talking about working, I don't see the pay you speak of on the scales at airlinepilotcentral.com. Maybe that is out dated info. I see 221 days paid at $63K or so, a lot more days than a NJA capt would be working.

Oh yeah, and I am far from unhappy, and no one has told me to be unhappy. I guess I missed that union info somewhere.

 

[netjetwife]

My favorite post on this thread....

I hope Flex is making money so they can afford to beat the NJA contract. Then NJA 1108 can use that as a goal to beat in the next round of negotiations. A good contract raises the bar for the other guys to beat and keeps us all moving forward.

KSU, you have it backwards. Leverage comes from pilots that stop doing favors for the company. Not going the extra mile, not pushing oneself, not doing short turns, etc, are conditions that are more comfortable than the opposite scenario. Pilots are much happier having a Union Steward beside them should management call them in for a carpet dance.

A bit of NJA pilot history for you, KSU. When 93% of the pilots voted to strike it was done one private vote at a time. No one was leaning over anyone's shoulder (minus spouses... ) telling them how to vote... Likewise, for the failed TA and the one that passed. A professional survey of the pilot group shows they are satisfied, by a large margin. The Union polled the pilots (by an outside company) to get their feedback. As I said, you've got it backwards and I just wanted to set the record straight.

Congrats on the reduction in your health care and the offer of stock options. NJW

 

[SCT]

Hey, Mrs. "aviation expert" NJW...... I think you might mean "quick turn" instead of "short turn".

SCT

 

[Diesel]

Short turn???? Are we doing standups now?

 

[gunfyter]

If you really want to go there, let's go there.

Year 2 NJA captain on the small jets is 61+K. Year 1 (2nd year with company) Flex captain on the Lear would make $74+K if they worked as many days as a NJA captain. Flex pilots have a more flexible schedule (although knowing your schedule a year in advance is good) have a pension (NJA doesn't) and the same matching on their 401K as NJA. Flex pilots pay for health care, but the company just decreased the employee input by 20% or more and have stock options. ?

According to my calculations... NJA PIC pay is higher than Flex pay for EVERY year of service. Every year of service makes the difference greater in favor of NJA. Add in holiday pay and overtime... cha-ching.

More flexible schedule?
Yes, we do not have t answer the phone during rest and violate the 135/91K rest rules. Sucks to have a union, I see your point.

 

[FraxJockey]

Well, it sure didn't take long for this thread to degrade to this point. Can't we all just get along? Some like it here and those that don't, left. Please don't turn around and criticize those that do like their jobs.

 

[netjetwife]

Yes, guys....it should be quick turn. I was thinking "when you are only given a short amount of time". See what happens when I post while cleaning house instead of giving you more of my attention.... But hey, that should at least put an end to any rumors that I'm not a NJ pilot's wife...

SCT, I've never claimed to be more than what I am---a well informed spouse that strongly believes frac pilots deserve professional compensation. I'll gladly stick to the family interest side of things and leave the technical discussions to the rest of you. After all, one doesn't have to be an "aviation expert" to discuss pay, scheduling, union issues, etc.....

Fair enough, Frax, and in turn you'll promise not to criticize those who'd like to see improvements at the job they like, right?

 

[NETFLIER]

KSU,


www.ibt1108.com. there is a website there for flex.

band together and help make the fractional industry the leader.

Its not about who makes more, its about you not being taken advantage of anymore.

I am more of a company man than a union man, but our union has done great things for both sides.