FlexJet Flies out of the red.

[doylehargraves]

real mature...

I prefer this one though.......



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpHphn1APts

 

[ksu_aviator]

the flex ownership will never pay the pilots until they stand up and stop being the "jetbluers" of the industry. Unless they unionize, stop answering the phone durring rest, and make the company operate in the "proper" manner, nothing will come of the place. 100 airplanes is the max they will ever have.

Most of the pilots there are freight dogs who think its the best thing ever to come and dont know how much better it can get.

I have been a flex pilot, I have talked with flex pilots, I know someone on the inside.. The above is a pinch of opinion combined with known facts.

If you really want to go there, let's go there.

Year 2 NJA captain on the small jets is 61+K. Year 1 (2nd year with company) Flex captain on the Lear would make $74+K if they worked as many days as a NJA captain. Flex pilots have a more flexible schedule (although knowing your schedule a year in advance is good) have a pension (NJA doesn't) and the same matching on their 401K as NJA. Flex pilots pay for health care, but the company just decreased the employee input by 20% or more and have stock options.

You can hoot and hollar all you want about how great your job is, but don't bitch and moan about how bad some one's job is if they like their job. I, for one, am glad you left. If you are anything like your post above I wouldn't want to be forced to sit in a cockpit with you for 6 days!

BTW...that wonderful union you have is going to make you unhappy. They have to! How else can they get enough power to negotiate with the company? With out some level of discomfort amoung the pilots, the Union is weak and useless. Keep that in mind as you become less fond of your job over the next five years and always ask yourself, am I unhappy or have I been told I'm unhappy?

 

[JustInfo]

Year 2 capt pay at NJA is not an issue if you don't upgrade until 3+ years. Glad to hear you can upgrade in year 1 at flex.

Also curious how many days you are talking about working, I don't see the pay you speak of on the scales at airlinepilotcentral.com. Maybe that is out dated info. I see 221 days paid at $63K or so, a lot more days than a NJA capt would be working.

Oh yeah, and I am far from unhappy, and no one has told me to be unhappy. I guess I missed that union info somewhere.

 

[netjetwife]

My favorite post on this thread....

I hope Flex is making money so they can afford to beat the NJA contract. Then NJA 1108 can use that as a goal to beat in the next round of negotiations. A good contract raises the bar for the other guys to beat and keeps us all moving forward.

KSU, you have it backwards. Leverage comes from pilots that stop doing favors for the company. Not going the extra mile, not pushing oneself, not doing short turns, etc, are conditions that are more comfortable than the opposite scenario. Pilots are much happier having a Union Steward beside them should management call them in for a carpet dance.

A bit of NJA pilot history for you, KSU. When 93% of the pilots voted to strike it was done one private vote at a time. No one was leaning over anyone's shoulder (minus spouses... ) telling them how to vote... Likewise, for the failed TA and the one that passed. A professional survey of the pilot group shows they are satisfied, by a large margin. The Union polled the pilots (by an outside company) to get their feedback. As I said, you've got it backwards and I just wanted to set the record straight.

Congrats on the reduction in your health care and the offer of stock options. NJW

 

[SCT]

Hey, Mrs. "aviation expert" NJW...... I think you might mean "quick turn" instead of "short turn".

SCT

 

[Diesel]

Short turn???? Are we doing standups now?

 

[gunfyter]

If you really want to go there, let's go there.

Year 2 NJA captain on the small jets is 61+K. Year 1 (2nd year with company) Flex captain on the Lear would make $74+K if they worked as many days as a NJA captain. Flex pilots have a more flexible schedule (although knowing your schedule a year in advance is good) have a pension (NJA doesn't) and the same matching on their 401K as NJA. Flex pilots pay for health care, but the company just decreased the employee input by 20% or more and have stock options. ?

According to my calculations... NJA PIC pay is higher than Flex pay for EVERY year of service. Every year of service makes the difference greater in favor of NJA. Add in holiday pay and overtime... cha-ching.

More flexible schedule?
Yes, we do not have t answer the phone during rest and violate the 135/91K rest rules. Sucks to have a union, I see your point.

 

[FraxJockey]

Well, it sure didn't take long for this thread to degrade to this point. Can't we all just get along? Some like it here and those that don't, left. Please don't turn around and criticize those that do like their jobs.

 

[netjetwife]

Yes, guys....it should be quick turn. I was thinking "when you are only given a short amount of time". See what happens when I post while cleaning house instead of giving you more of my attention.... But hey, that should at least put an end to any rumors that I'm not a NJ pilot's wife...

SCT, I've never claimed to be more than what I am---a well informed spouse that strongly believes frac pilots deserve professional compensation. I'll gladly stick to the family interest side of things and leave the technical discussions to the rest of you. After all, one doesn't have to be an "aviation expert" to discuss pay, scheduling, union issues, etc.....

Fair enough, Frax, and in turn you'll promise not to criticize those who'd like to see improvements at the job they like, right?

 

[NETFLIER]

KSU,


www.ibt1108.com. there is a website there for flex.

band together and help make the fractional industry the leader.

Its not about who makes more, its about you not being taken advantage of anymore.

I am more of a company man than a union man, but our union has done great things for both sides.

 

[Lone Star 31a]

I am sure all of those guys and gals that were let go in April and May of 2003 are glad to have done their part to help the floundering FlexJet get back on its feet. I don't hear anyone thanking them for their effort. Lest we forget our comrads who were let go unjustly just so we can still have our jobs. I still do not trust M. McQ., R.H., D.P. and a few others including the infamous Cookie-boy. Yeah, I'm still here. I don't like here. Before any of you start on me, yes, I am looking for another job. I am tired of waiting for a brotherhood that won't happen. We have allowed ourselves to be dooped by our management to think everything is getting better. Remember how management thought money grew on trees? It'll happen again. Everyone like our raises? How about the raise in our benefit costs? Some raise. I ran into one of the former F.O.'s a couple of months ago in Arlington. He is now flying a 60 in Europe making 6 figures. He told me being fired from Flex was the best thing ever to happen to him. Great for him. What about those who didn't recover? Flex can go F**K themselves. I'm sure Ste** Gr** will be on here to support Flex. He always does. And he will always be one to stab everyone in the back. For what? I will never know. Maybe a beeline to a management position. Besides, he tried that before. I hope that everything does come together here. In my eight years here I have seen it be great in the beginning to not so great to absolutely terrible. I just can't stand it anymore. Good luck to the rest of you. I am tired. I have had it with all the broken promises and flat out lies. I hope it gets better, but I will not stick around any longer.

 

[ksu_aviator]

KSU, you have it backwards. Leverage comes from pilots that stop doing favors for the company. Not going the extra mile, not pushing oneself, not doing short turns, etc, are conditions that are more comfortable than the opposite scenario. Pilots are much happier having a Union Steward beside them should management call them in for a carpet dance.

Besides the carpet dance part...the rest is part of your job...what do you think we where hired to do...sit in a hotel and bitch about the crew meals?

A bit of NJA pilot history for you, KSU. When 93% of the pilots voted to strike it was done one private vote at a time. No one was leaning over anyone's shoulder (minus spouses... ) telling them how to vote... Likewise, for the failed TA and the one that passed. A professional survey of the pilot group shows they are satisfied, by a large margin. The Union polled the pilots (by an outside company) to get their feedback. As I said, you've got it backwards and I just wanted to set the record straight.

Ok...so if 93% of the pilots where happy with their jobs do you think the union would have had a chance? That discontent had to come from some where! Initially it probably was company driven...in the future it will be "us v them" driven.

 

[ksu_aviator]

According to my calculations... NJA PIC pay is higher than Flex pay for EVERY year of service. Every year of service makes the difference greater in favor of NJA. Add in holiday pay and overtime... cha-ching.

More flexible schedule?
Yes, we do not have t answer the phone during rest and violate the 135/91K rest rules. Sucks to have a union, I see your point.

I know of no requirement at Flex to answer the phone....where are you getting your info from?

 

[ksu_aviator]

KSU,


www.ibt1108.com. there is a website there for flex.

band together and help make the fractional industry the leader.

Its not about who makes more, its about you not being taken advantage of anymore.

I am more of a company man than a union man, but our union has done great things for both sides.

I work slightly more than half a year and I'm the one being taken advantage of? Get real dude.

 

[vixin]

Ksu you need to get a clue. For one we dont get stock options. We get a 20% match on what we buy. Far from being options. The stock has been in the toilet for years though. Analyst have at a sell. The 401k isnt even close to there match. They get 100% up to 7.5% (NJ guys can correct me if wrong, I am sure they will...lol). Flex matches 50% upto 6% of your salary wich is really 3%. The pension you speak of will be gone sooner or later.

Our pay compared to NJ. Look at it again brother and stop doing the RH 3rd grade mathematics. They make 12-20,000 more then we do, work less doing it and have protection. There standards CA make more, holiday pay, better meals, better quality of life. You say you have conrtol over your schedule. Now thats funny. I am fairly senior and still dont get what I would like.

The requirment to answer the phone...well lets just say if they want to get rid of you they will. Dont answer that phone a few times and see what happens. They cant make it a "requirement" that would be a blantant disregaurd for the regs. Then they would have to define your rest. They just decide to look at the so called "loop holes". Everytime they call it is a violation. It is a matter of time before the FEDS get a clue and violate the heck out of Flex. As they should be violated. Flex has NO reguard for rest what so ever.

Either you are new or an office puke. Either way you need to get a clue. Stop dinking that Koolaid and post more factual information if you are going to post.

VIX

 

[netjetwife]

NJA does a 50% match on the first 15% put into the 401K. Likewise, the NJ pilots can add to/and or clarify my post, as well.

Vixin, you've made a strong case for why Flex pilots deserve/need a contract. Best of luck to you and your group!
NJW

 

[gunfyter]

I know of no requirement at Flex to answer the phone....where are you getting your info from?

Then why do YOU, answer the phone?

I got my information from a 5th year FLEX pilot who was on the Computer @ DAL Signature putting in applications for NJA and CS. This was before the NJA CBA of 2005 was settled.

 

[LAZYB]

You shy, shy boy. Why so timid? Tell em what you think. :beer:

A lot of nice guys at Flex, but a lot of rationalizing and/or Stockholm Syndrome.

Can I get an amen.

Ksu you need to get a clue. For one we dont get stock options. We get a 20% match on what we buy. Far from being options. The stock has been in the toilet for years though. Analyst have at a sell. The 401k isnt even close to there match. They get 100% up to 7.5% (NJ guys can correct me if wrong, I am sure they will...lol). Flex matches 50% upto 6% of your salary wich is really 3%. The pension you speak of will be gone sooner or later.

Our pay compared to NJ. Look at it again brother and stop doing the RH 3rd grade mathematics. They make 12-20,000 more then we do, work less doing it and have protection. There standards CA make more, holiday pay, better meals, better quality of life. You say you have conrtol over your schedule. Now thats funny. I am fairly senior and still dont get what I would like.

The requirment to answer the phone...well lets just say if they want to get rid of you they will. Dont answer that phone a few times and see what happens. They cant make it a "requirement" that would be a blantant disregaurd for the regs. Then they would have to define your rest. They just decide to look at the so called "loop holes". Everytime they call it is a violation. It is a matter of time before the FEDS get a clue and violate the heck out of Flex. As they should be violated. Flex has NO reguard for rest what so ever.

Either you are new or an office puke. Either way you need to get a clue. Stop dinking that Koolaid and post more factual information if you are going to post.

VIX

 

[Fozzy]

NJA does a 50% match on the first 15% put into the 401K. Likewise, the NJ pilots can add to/and or clarify my post, as well.

Not exactually. We get 50% match up to the government allowed maximum. Or that is the way I see it. So for this year, the govt allows us to put in $15,000 pretax. NJA adds $7,500. Free money. Compounding over and over and over and over (you get the idea).

Next year it is $15,500. NJA match will be $7,750.
Please, anyone correct me if I am wrong.

The goal at NJA for your retirement is to make captain and make sure you max this out every year. No matter what. I could not do it on FO pay, mouths to feed. But I did put 10% while on FO, and that gave me over 30K in about 3 years.

 

[finnjl]

If you are bitching about the fractionals you will never be happy anywhere. The days of making 300,000 and working 10 days a month are gone. At least in about 6-7 years at Flex or NJ you will be making 6 figures plus. Contrary to popular belief there are not too many jobs out there that do that well. Especially with the typical 4 year degree most pilots have.

I am not sure what Netflyer is talking about as the wages, pay, and work rules are pretty much the same. If anything I see a lot of NJ pilots on airport standby. He must be pro union. Personally, I am not as it makes no sense to me to have a pilot in his spare time negotiate for the group and then pay 3%of your pay in the form of dues. The pilot negotiatier is working for free and the union folks are making good cash for nothing. Plus look how good the working environment is at the regionals $500/every two weeks first year, second year maybe 1000/every two, yeah the unions are really working.