Flex Union Drive

[ArtVandalay]

All I can say Mr Walsh is when you upgrade into the Lear 45 in the next year or so, I would be surprised to see if you feel the same way. Enjoy the gravy train while it lasts.

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

Art: I would think that when he upgrades, if he doesn't like it, he will simply leave. That's the ultimate vote.

Dime: You were born on a planet where things are in constant change. I guess that's not moral in your world. Grow up!

Squonk: I worked with ex-Eastern guys, who used to make $11K a month flying the 1011. They were making $2K flying Jetstreams. Your "any major dude" line is a farce.

Walsh: Wanted to leave a note on the yoke, but I guess you understand why I didn't. Like your posts.

Pers: Funny how they just don't understand what you meant.

 

[Necromonger]

Yo Walsh, and this is for Beetle Baily too

That's not our responsibility, you'd have to make this decision on your own. You can't use anything an anonymous person tells you, and you should only take what others you aren't afraid of their identity, say with a grain of salt. Its your decision to make, as is everything you do every day of your life. Just remember the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence, you know where the septic take is.

As for me I have my reasons to vote NO.

Just remember you applied here knowing there was no union, so you should be asking yourself why do I want to change the company I came begging to for a job.

My thoughts supported by me, they only opinion that matters to me.

Walsh

If you'd take the time to read my previous posts, you'd know where I truly stand.
I read all the B#TT Slappin' and Back scratchin' on the Blue Belly. Some of you new guys here just don't have a clue. You will only get ONE side on the company website. The issues are not NEW. The vaulted CAB has been working hard to get little to nothing out of management.

The ONLY time we get any improvements here have been with the threat of unionizing. Or, with a big NJA TA. Why can't we be the ones blazing our own trails?

Talk to the 3 guys in the LJ60 who are now on 7th year FO pay. Oh, wait, there is no 7th year FO pay. So, they are getting 6th year pay still. The answer to them was; sorry, we didn't put it in our budget, maybe next MAY we will be able to put that pay scale in. For a company that toots its own horn for being able to help us out, BECAUSE WE ARE NOT UNION, they are kind of dropping the ball ON those 3 guys.
I guess since you are not one of those 3 folks, it's OK with you.

Do your homework. See what this company has done in the past. They will continue to hold that carrot out there for ya. I guess it's going to take you a couple of years to get sick of the empty promises.

Remember: Your pay is subject to change at ANY time. Your schedule is subject to change at ANY time. You may be layed off, out of seniority, or fired at ANY time. I could go on....All of this, with no protection.
We've seen it all. Give it time, without a union, you will too.

To the others out there:
KEEP SENDING IN THOSE CARDS!!!!!!!!!

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

Ya know Necro, that's the way of the world. There is no Santa Claus.

I have four years union time. How 'bout you? On my past job, I was hired into the bottom airplane in the fleet. When they started getting rid of it, I was senior in it, and couldn't upgrade to the higher airplanes because of the union contract. (That would be a displacement that I was "protected" from.) Thus, I spent 4 years in the right seat of the Jetstream.

My kid had to have neurosurgery. To be there, I had to drop my last out-and-back. I was told that I had to drop the entire 3-day-trip because of the union contract.

The 3 guys you talk about: Certainly unfair if what you say is true. In my former union, the grievances were piled up on the desk of mgmt like leaves on a Vermont farm. So what? How do you think a union will change anything?

Many of us have been there before. Tell me of your union experience. (Details). I'm anxiously awaiting.

 

[ksu_aviator]

"As for me I have my reasons to vote NO"

Management loves people like you and your reasons (Morals), This is business, Morals have no room in buisness.

Real men never abandon morales just because someone else did the same. In life, it isn't whether or not you win, but how you play the game that matters. If you go through life using honesty and integrity you will get a lot farther than taking a momentary financial gain by abandoning what you know to be right. You will also feel better about what you accomplish.

I'm not saying that a union at flex would be good or bad. I don't know, I don't work there. But if this type of attitude prevails in that union, it will not accomplish its goals.

 

[Just Peachy]

Short sighted ED*********

Ya know Necro, that's the way of the world. There is no Santa Claus.

I have four years union time. How 'bout you? On my past job, I was hired into the bottom airplane in the fleet. When they started getting rid of it, I was senior in it, and couldn't upgrade to the higher airplanes because of the union contract. (That would be a displacement that I was "protected" from.) Thus, I spent 4 years in the right seat of the Jetstream.

My kid had to have neurosurgery. To be there, I had to drop my last out-and-back. I was told that I had to drop the entire 3-day-trip because of the union contract.

The 3 guys you talk about: Certainly unfair if what you say is true. In my former union, the grievances were piled up on the desk of mgmt like leaves on a Vermont farm. So what? How do you think a union will change anything?

Many of us have been there before. Tell me of your union experience. (Details). I'm anxiously awaiting.

Well Ed, I am qualified to answer your question, I worked at flex for 5 stinkin' years...yeah left being sr# 17.

Flex will never change cuz mgmt has NO incentive to change it.

I can tell you Im makeing substantially more working less, at NJA at the 5 year mark...... and I credit that to the union. I have passed my peers at Flex who have remained. In pay, time off, hospitalization, insurance deductions, work schedule, crew meals, hotels........ just about ALL areas. Yes, we had to fight like hell to get it but we did what it took and waddya know, we have a decent salery and the company is making money !
jeez..what a concept

Flex has always been the wipping boy of Bombardier. We were told the primary purpose of flex was to sell a NEW aircraft to a customer and Flex was a neccessary evil. When we grumbled about the 7 and 3 schedule, Mgmt went further saying, "if a union comes on the property we will close the company down"

Pretty empty threat to us older pilots but the younger ones bought it........ We couldn't convince the younger majority to unionize because for most of them, it was the best job they ever had.. see this post;

http://airlinepilotcentral.com/option,com_docman/task,doc_view/gid,24/Itemid,85.html#search=%22shiny%20jet%20syndrome%22

But there was a lot of younger pilots leaving for the airlines in those days, so they couldnt of been too happy. Now, a fair amount of them are wondering about their future.

If you want to have a say in your future at Flex, send those cards in.

Or be someones bitch......

 

[walshsfly]

Morals?

I have never said I have morals. I said I have reasons, they have nothing to do with my morals. My morals could be to stab you in the back then go to your house and take your TV and anything else I want, or they could be to give you a helping hand whenever you need it. You don't know do you?

What helps me sleep at night is not what helps you sleep at night. Most of everything I see on here is someone telling someone else how they should live and what would be best for their family. In all reality we all have to make our own choices and we all have to live with it.

Just one thing to think about: Your company doesn't owe you anything, they are in the business of making money. And if you think otherwise, you need to change your meds.

 

[dime line]

"Real men never abandon morales just because someone else did the same"

Your right, but the very same people that you (and your family) rely on for your paycheck don't play by the same rules as you or I do.

Ex. FLOPS management said...."were not making a profit"
what they do about it?....let the upper management use the planes for the wives to go shopping

"In life, it isn't whether or not you win, but how you play the game that matters."

Not quite agree with that, you can be fair and win too. Look above at how management plays the game. Then look and read NJ's contract, there winning

 

[ArtVandalay]

Ya know Necro, that's the way of the world. There is no Santa Claus.

I have four years union time. How 'bout you? On my past job, I was hired into the bottom airplane in the fleet. When they started getting rid of it, I was senior in it, and couldn't upgrade to the higher airplanes because of the union contract. (That would be a displacement that I was "protected" from.) Thus, I spent 4 years in the right seat of the Jetstream.

My kid had to have neurosurgery. To be there, I had to drop my last out-and-back. I was told that I had to drop the entire 3-day-trip because of the union contract.

The 3 guys you talk about: Certainly unfair if what you say is true. In my former union, the grievances were piled up on the desk of mgmt like leaves on a Vermont farm. So what? How do you think a union will change anything?

Many of us have been there before. Tell me of your union experience. (Details). I'm anxiously awaiting.

And we are supposed to take someone seriously that idolizes Randy Moss?? Are you asking us to bow to you because you have "four years of union time"? This isn't a pissing contest and, for the record, I have "eleven years of union time".

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

Art, so what happened to your union job? With 11 years of seniority in a union job you should be making a good buck-and-a-half there, rather than being at FJ. Why would you leave such a high-paying job?

Peachy: I have the utmost respect for you guys who have been here for a while, which is why I've stayed pretty low-key on the discussion. Among those who I've flown with (senior to your 5 years), they seem to have a good attitude about the Company.

I got news for you -- as long as we're the ones in the front of the plane, rather than in the back, we're already "someone's bitch." I don't know how you can see that any other way.