Flex or Net Jets

[miles otoole]

What is the reason behind Flex's hiring blitz? Are they losing guys to JB, SWA and Air Tran, or are they thinking that they will be getting owners from Netjets?

1) not too many
2) thinking?

hmmmmmmmm.......

 

[cosmotheassman]

Flex is getting 52 airplanes over the next couple of years. What the "net" gain is, I have no idea. Maybe someone else on here can give that number. I heard we are getting 13 300's next year though. Anyone else got different numbers???

It doesn't hurt us that there's all that crying going on at netjets either...

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

The Captain I flew with 2 rotations ago had the long recurrent in Aug. R H came in and said the 52 planes are all growth. We may get more, depending if we can get more 300's from the factory. Also said that all '02 hires will upgrade by Spring '06. He was estimating we might have 500 pilots by the end of '07. Of course, everthing is subject to change.

I wonder if that 52 planes includes the reported doubling of the 604 fleet.

 

[luckydog]

According to the last (already out of date) seniority list, including the 9 2002 hires left, that would be 42 upgrades. There are probably some CH 300 seatlocks in that list but, that would be a massive training effort during our busy months.

I hope it's true, but like you said... things change.

 

[N1atEcon]

Neither... Go find a good Gulfstream operator. Get a job that fly's 400 hrs a year, pays 70 to 90 for an fo and 140 plus for the Cpt and stay there forever. Everyone thought fractionals were the bomb in the 90's. They are not. Net Jets Union has no teeth due to the archaic RLA. The old way was way better. Pilot "Hey boss i need to talk to you about a raise." Boss "Whats on your mind." Pilot "I need about a 5 % increase per year." Boss "Sorry cant do it" Pilot "ok here is my two weeks notice." Boss "Hold on a minute, your a great guy i dont want to loose you. How about 4% and another week off in the summer to take your kids to the company beach house." Pilot "Deal!"

 

[CL604DRVR]

Neither... Go find a good Gulfstream operator. Get a job that fly's 400 hrs a year, pays 70 to 90 for an fo and 140 plus for the Cpt and stay there forever. Everyone thought fractionals were the bomb in the 90's. They are not. Net Jets Union has no teeth due to the archaic RLA. The old way was way better. Pilot "Hey boss i need to talk to you about a raise." Boss "Whats on your mind." Pilot "I need about a 5 % increase per year." Boss "Sorry cant do it" Pilot "ok here is my two weeks notice." Boss "Hold on a minute, your a great guy i dont want to loose you. How about 4% and another week off in the summer to take your kids to the company beach house." Pilot "Deal!"

Most corp jobs are not like that. The scenario you just laid out I have been through except it ended with here's my two-week notice. I also had another airplane sold out from under me. The bottom line is you trade some pay for stability, having hard days off and not having to manage anything. You simply show up work and go home with a fractional.

 

[gunfyter]

Most corp jobs are not like that. The scenario you just laid out I have been through except it ended with here's my two-week notice. I also had another airplane sold out from under me. The bottom line is you trade some pay for stability, having hard days off and not having to manage anything. You simply show up work and go home with a fractional.

Not having been corporate, I simply imagine it would be more like the military where I flew less, but planned more and had a lot of other additional duties and responsibilities. Planning time exceeded flight time.

It was difficult at first to not have that kind of control.

For years I wanted to know what trips I was doing tomorrow. Now I do not get brief sheets sent to me the night before. I don't care about any of it until about 1.5 hrs before the trip. All I want to know is what is my show time.

 

[N1atEcon]

That is why i said "good". Lets face it there are a lot of good companies and some really crappy ones. Why the fractioonals get away with so much abuse is because pilots can live where they want,for the most part. So they put up with the low pay.

 

[FalconPilot69]

I have to agree with CL604. I am currently leaving corporate to go to the fractionals for a number of reasons. Job security is a big one, followed closely by having hard days off. The company I am leaving don't believe in days off and if you don't fly during the week, even though you have to be ready to go, they consider that your day off. Whatever! I do believe that there are the really great corporate companies out there to work for, I unfortunately have not found it. Maybe I am dreaming, but the fractionals still seem to me to be the place to be.

 

[gutshotdraw]

With apologies to Mr. Letterman:

The TOP TEN Reasons why Fractional Flying is WAY Easier than Traditional Corporate

10. You rarely (if ever) have to file a flight plan or calculate a weight and balance.

9. You never have to make a hotel, airline, or car reservation for yourself or your passengers.

8. You never have to arrange international handling agents or wade through piles of paperwork for overflight permits, aircraft importation, customs approvals, etc.

7. You never have to spend hours poring over bills, invoices, etc. and worry whether the boss will lose his mind over how much an inspection cost him.

6. You never have to worry about the boss firing you on the road because his wife didn't like your landing in Teterboro (true story).

5. You never have to worry about the boss demanding you fly him from Sydney to Honolulu to Los Angeles in one shot (true story).

4. You never have to worry about the boss selling the airplane and signing on with a fractional (true story x about 1000).

3. You never have to worry about flying with the same jerk you can't stand every week.

2. You never have to worry about the company stock price diving 20 % and the beancounters telling the CEO "SELL THE AIRPLANES!"

2 A. You get a whole lot more choice in where you live.

and the number 1 reason why Fractional Flying is WAY Easier than Traditional Corporate:

You get more than two weeks a month of HARD, SCHEDULED DAYS OFF where you can throw the pager in a sock drawer.

Sorry kids, reality check. The whole idea of flying fractional instead of NBAA traditional corporate is quality of life. You give up a bit of a salary premium in exchange.

Should NJA pilots get a raise? Heck yea. Should they get what they are demanding? Don't think so.

 

[Heavy Set]

With apologies to Mr. Letterman:

The TOP TEN Reasons why Fractional Flying is WAY Easier than Traditional Corporate

10. You rarely (if ever) have to file a flight plan or calculate a weight and balance.

9. You never have to make a hotel, airline, or car reservation for yourself or your passengers.

8. You never have to arrange international handling agents or wade through piles of paperwork for overflight permits, aircraft importation, customs approvals, etc.

7. You never have to spend hours poring over bills, invoices, etc. and worry whether the boss will lose his mind over how much an inspection cost him.

6. You never have to worry about the boss firing you on the road because his wife didn't like your landing in Teterboro (true story).

5. You never have to worry about the boss demanding you fly him from Sydney to Honolulu to Los Angeles in one shot (true story).

4. You never have to worry about the boss selling the airplane and signing on with a fractional (true story x about 1000).

3. You never have to worry about flying with the same jerk you can't stand every week.

2. You never have to worry about the company stock price diving 20 % and the beancounters telling the CEO "SELL THE AIRPLANES!"

2 A. You get a whole lot more choice in where you live.

and the number 1 reason why Fractional Flying is WAY Easier than Traditional Corporate:

You get more than two weeks a month of HARD, SCHEDULED DAYS OFF where you can throw the pager in a sock drawer.

Sorry kids, reality check. The whole idea of flying fractional instead of NBAA traditional corporate is quality of life. You give up a bit of a salary premium in exchange.

Should NJA pilots get a raise? Heck yea. Should they get what they are demanding? Don't think so.

Hello Mr. Boisture! Great to hear from you. You say give up a BIT of a salary premium? Excuse me? Do you think flying as a Falcon 2000, Citation X, G200 or Sovereign First Officer and earning around $30K per year is acceptable? Do you think flying as a Citation X Captain and earning $55-60K is reasonable? If you do, then you are seriously out of touch with the average salaries for those types of aircraft - irregardless of schedule stability. I know Citation X FOs who are earning $65K per year and they fly maybe 12-15 days per month out of a great location. NJA payscales are seriously out of whack - and that is REALITY Mr. Boisture.... It's apparent to everyone but NJA management...

You're losing your "well trained and experienced" pilots every day to the LCCs and better-paying corporate jobs (good thing Buffet also owns Flight Safety...) and you have rapidly increasing owner turnover - it's time to wake up...

 

[psysicx]

NJI seems like the best deal if you want to fly for the frax's.

 

[Fins Up]

"irregardless" isn't a word.

Grammar police.

 

[Heavy Set]

"irregardless" isn't a word.

Grammar police.

Why don't you lighten up Francis.... Irregardless and regardless are interchangeable. Thanks for caring...

 

[Fins Up]

If you search for "lighten up Francis", you'll find it about a thousand times on this site. Good thought though. Bill Murray's movies are my favorites.

So back to the original thought. They are not interchangeable because irregardless isn't a word. Neither is interchangable.