First post

[Archer]

Hey, I just ventured into this message board. I've been trying to find one with a large volume of posts/day and total posts...and I think I found it.

I've been browsing through threads, and I noticed the number of pilots on this board with thousands of ours and basically every single rating available out there! I'm a little overwhealmed as a 28 hour student pilot...are there any student pilot members here?

Well I would like to start off by telling of my story and my dreams as a pilot.

I've always had a huge fascination and interest in flying since my childhood. Some 9 or 10 year-olds will say they want to become firemen, or policemen, or soldiers or pilots. Then some of them decide that what they really wanted to do was getting an MBA and working for an investment bank. Yet some do become pilots, firemen etc.

I've always wanted to be a pilot of some sort. I love airplanes, spacecraft and anything that flies. I always have.

Until 9th grade, my goal was to become a fighter pilot. But at that time, my inherited (through my father) need for correction glasses shattered that goal as airforces don't accept vision less than 20/20.

So I went to high school, and tried to think of what to do with my life. I knew I loved planes and spacecraft, and that I would like to deal with them in some way or another. So if I could not fly these superb human creations, I could at least help design them.

So, after some further confusion in my first year in college (I was considering Electrical Engineering) I decided to go into Aerospace Engineering.

Now I'm happy with what I'm studying, yet, as that guy from the movie "Independence Day" said...."my heart belongs in the air"...I think that statement is true for me.

I had always contenplated learning to fly, yet I was afraid of it since it was a little alien...(btw, I don't have a drivers licence, yet I'm about to get my PPL)

Well, after my demo flight, and my first few lessons...I became less afraid of it, and relly began to love flight.

Now that I'm on my way to the PPL as a student pilot, while at the same time being on my way to a BA (and eventually MA) in Aerospace Engineering...I've got this internal conflict within me.

I love planes, and that is a fact for me. I get excited whenever I see a picture or video of an SR-71 or F-15 in flight...or a space shuttle launch.

Yet I can either design air/spacecraft or fly them. Flying thouch is restricted because of my vision problem.

So I was considering a compromise. Become an engineer, and yet, have part time jobs as a pilot, or even start my own little fun flight business.

I've probably been in about 20+ transatlantic flights, and some 200+ airline flights. Yet, I've come to realize that I would never like to fly as an airline pilot, not for a living at least, maybe to try it out (if such a thing was possible). Big planes are not for me. I rather like smaller, more maneuverable planes...liek jet fighters, small piston singles and twins or light turboprops/business jets.

So my interest in flying is limited to a maximum capacity of 10 to 14 passengers or so at the most.

I wouldn't like to fly anything bigger. The smallest of King Air's or business jets comes to mind. All kinds of piston twins and high performance singles. Those are the planes I'd love to fly the most.

I also don't like flying as a regional airline of any sort. My interest would be to be a pilot that flies people around in piston twins or singles for sightseeing tours, or for some other sort of job in such small planes. Even charters don't interest me.

Well, to get to the point, I was wondering if a Commercial Certificate would allow me to work as such a pilot of a light twin or turboprop.

Some people said you would need a CFI to do any "real professional flying for hire" of any sort... to build hours without paying a couple billions bucks...

and CFI has never really been a certificate I would want...Instrument, multi, Commercial, aerobatic, type ratings and endorcements are what I was interested in.

Also, the expected starting salary for me as a Aerospace Engineer with a Masters is about 60,000 bucks. Now, I know money is not everything in life, but it sure makes it a hell of a lot more comfortable and secure. And I see that the pilot/aviation industry is not doing all that well as there seems to be an excess supply of pilots and not enough positions, and starting salaries seem to be around half that mark...i.e. about 30,000 bucks.

One thing I was considering was getting an MBA and starting my own flight business...and be one of the pilots as well as the CEO or whatever...to get to fly and make a little more money...

it seems that the best realistic solution for me would be going into corporate flying as they are smaller jets...but I don't really like the lack of flexibility of that job...hauling business men here and there...

well...these are all dreams and guesses...I'm in my Junior year in college...and I started flying a couple months ago...so I'm a little late for a degree in Aviation (i.e. Flight Major)...though I was considering switching...

well, this is probably the longest post...too many questions and you guys problably already hate me

congrats if you have not fallen asleep...I would appreciate some input on this whole pilot's life/job issue...

Thanx

Archer

 

[MetroSheriff]

Welcome to the boards. Enjoy yourself. By all means, if flying is what you want to do...GO FOR IT.

It's the best job there is. We all complain a lot but it still the best deal going. You make lots of good friends have a good time at work and have all kinds of stupid little things to complain about. ; )

The schedules are easy, even at the regionals. You will always hear us regional folks talking about how hard we work and how bad the schedules are. All you have to do is see how much free time we all have to get on here and complain about stuff. Idle minds are the devil's workshop as they say.

In short there is no better more fun, albeit unstable at times, to make a living.

Again, welcome to the boards and have a great time.

 

[banned username 2]

Welcome....

Funny you should mention being a Junior in Aerspace Engineering and considering a career change too late...

I was a Junior in Aerospace Engineering and changed majors to Aeronautical Science so I could fly... I have never looked back... Best choice I could have made (for me!)...

Well you sound like you might like Corporate flying... Corporate can be a lot of fun, you get to see the world, fly great equipment and make a decent buck... Oh and if you like gadgets.... We have a few of those too! My Office And the view sure beats an office cubicle!

You need to decide if you wanna design them or fly them...

Good Luck!

 

[Archer]

Thanx for the welcome!

Falcon Captain, really? You were an Aero? what a coincidence...right now that I'm thinking of switching...

see the main problem are my parents...and my own worries...

my parents expect me to get a MA in Aero and get a respectable job paying 60 grand or more and building the next generation reusable launch vehicle...

They want to see me in a suite, full of money, living in a nice location. Do not get them wrong, they do know that you gotta do what you like, but they do emphasize that money is very important in life to live comfortably. And I do agree, yet I so want to fly...whenever I get into my Archer's cockpit...I feel at home, and I love it!

So didn't you feel...complete when you left Aero half done? that's my worry...that these three years of (very very very hard) work and sleepless nights were a waste...

yet I was envious of the flight majors that were studying from the Gleim test prep while I was crunching numbers and looking at low speed fluid mechanics problems...

I really don't know what to do...flying does seem overwealming too...with the tons of things you need to know...but I guess all jobs are like that...requiring hard work.

Your office does look MUCH more appealing that a cubicle I must say...

once again, thanx for the welcome, I already like it here

Archer

 

[HappyFlying]

Greetings Archer,

Have you considered designing for a living and flying for the fun of it? I am currently back to working behind a desk after a brief taste of flying for my paycheck. I fly my C150 several days a week. I work extra hours to keep my bugchaser in avgas but it is worth it. I have a bunch of flying friends that I join up with on the weekends to seek out pancakes. Until pilot hiring picks back up I have steady income and still get to fly. I took one of my regional F/O friends airport hopping the other day. He said it had been years since he had that much fun in an airplane.
Welcome aboard and good luck with your aviation quests.

Happy Flying

 

[Archer]

Well, that is a nice option too...it just adds to my confusion though...

See, I do like what I'm studying...yet I don't know if I like it more than flying...

one major problem (that influences my decision) is that once I get my degree in Aerospace Engineering, I will have a big problem finding a job in the US. And in the US is where the Aerospace industry is most advanced and exciting...

yet, almost every single job in this sector of industry requires either permanent residency or US citizenship...and I have neither...I'm Italian.

That causes a big problem, as I don't really want to work for any European companies...

I am guessing that this is less of an issue in finding a job as a pilot...at least in the civilian aviation.

anyone have any input on the greencard/citizenship issue for non-Americans pilots trying to find jobs in the US?

I am one confused 20 year old...thirsty for advice...and a way out of this black hole...

Archer

 

[katanabob]

I was an AE junior a mere two and a half years ago, changed majors and schools, and recently found myself with a history degree and a job offer from a regional. I figured I was sick of school and wanted to get a job while there were jobs to be had.
And what happened? Well, I'm looking at trying to take classes part-time once I make it to the line so I can finish up the second degree (AE) that should have been my first. I'm nowhere near the end of this saga, but there are a couple key points here to highlight-
1. If you are inclined to be an engineer, you won't be completely satisfied yanking gear or hanging a BA on your wall. I'm building an airplane to stay busy and I am now dying to finish up my AE degree.
2. Time is everything, so is timing. Get all the time you can while you can. Does your school have a flying club? (My first school did) If not, poke around local airports and find some additional parents to adopt on weekends.
3. I was very lucky. My poor choice to change majors and schools afforded me more spare time to work at the airport, build time, and instruct. (Once I had my CFI)

I would probably have been in grad school right now if I had left- miserable, grant it, but a whole lot smarter. As it sits, though, I'm hoping in 10 years I'll have my masters anyway, (for my own benefit, or to fall back on) as well as a little more seniority.
So what's it boil down to? You're two years away from being done with a heavy-hitting degree. Why stop now? You don't have to give that up to fly in your spare time, especially when you consider that the market sucks right now anyway and unless you're willing to use up a lifetime's supply of luck, there are very few jobs to be had.
Just my $.02

 

[Archer]

katanabob,

that was some very very good advice...in fact, all of the ones I got in this thread are great advices.

The more opinions/advice I hear, the more informed I am, and thus, the more likely to make a good decision for my life.

finishing up my degree seems one of the best things to do so that I can at least say I got a BA in Aeronautica Engineering...finishing up what you started seems to be a good motto...

meanwhile, I'm going to continue training and getting my ratings and licences

one question about that for you guys...my school as a good Aviation Technology department (flight major). I train at the university owned airport's FBO...

right now I'm doing my PPL training independetly with the FBO...though I was considering taking some AT courses and doing my Commercial/Instrument for instance with the school...

yet I love my CFI, he's a great guy, and I do want to train with him...I think I can train with him under the school or the FBO...

home study seems to going all right for me for my Private...though Instrument seems a lot of work to be able to handle on your own (even if the CFI is there for you)...I was thinking a structures class room environment might help me focus and follow a strict schedule...

any thoughts on that?

thanx again

Archer

 

[ACWild]

Hey Archer,
It looks like you're on the right track with getting your degree and training on the side. If you decide that you'll want to fly for a living later on, a degree is usually required. It can only help you and it doesn't really matter what you major in.

As far as instrument training and all the other ratings and licenses... It's a step by step process. The instrument rating probably seems overwhelming to you right now because you haven't finished your private yet. When you start your instrument training, I think that you'll find it manageable.

Good luck!

 

[bobbysamd]

Life's decisions

I realize that parents can impose a strong influence, if not duress, on how you decide to live your life. It is unfair of parents to impose their will on you. Just the same, it is hard for many parents not to get in your face about the career you choose. You've heard all of this before, I'm sure; that the decision ultimately is yours.

Best thing you can do about your flying is to take it one step at a time. See where it leads and how it goes. Absolutely, to amount to anything in aviation, you need no less than a four-year degree. I'm sure that's true in Europe as well. I like Aeronautical Science because you can't beat the education it provides if you are a pilot. Engineering is a terrific alternative because of the background you receive that is transferable to aviation.

I agree that going to class is the best way to take aviation ground school. It's the same idea as going to class in college. The interaction between you, your instructor and your classmates provides a more in-depth learning experience than trying to get it out of books or watching the John and Martha videotapes. I feel that you hit properly on the notion of how the discipline of having to study and going to class reinforces the learning experience. It might not be a bad idea if you can take some of your ground school at your university as electives.

You can apply for jobs in the U.S. as long as you have the right to work in the U.S. Barring that, how about applying to Alitalia after finishing all your Commercial ratings? I taught Alitalia students when I was a flight instructor at FlightSafety in Vero Beach. They were some of the best, and most enjoyable, students I ever had. The Alitalia training captains I met were demanding, as they had every right to be, but also were extremely fine people. I realize that Alitalia mainline flies larger airplanes than you feel you want to fly, but I am sure that Alitalia has a commuter affiliate(s) who fly smaller aircraft.

Good luck with your plans.

 

[Dan CFI/CFII]

For the record:

I've got an airplane engineering degree.

I didn't last long at my last job as an engineer. The only thing I've recently used my degree for is to figure out how big of a bolt I should use so that the engine hoist in my new shop would fail before I pulled the whole building down.

But I've used my CFI and A&P certificates quite a bit recently (oh yeah, that's my job--d'oh!)

I work with another Aeruonautical Engineer--he didn't last long in front of a computer screen either. My best friend is an Aeronautical Engineer--works as a CFI (although he'll probably move on soon).

There's no law that says you have to do what you have a degree in. Good thing, I've only held a job as an engineer once, but I've worked as a CFI (twice), an A&P, in youth ministry (a couple of times), as a ferry pilot, and it looks like I'm going to be playing substitute teacher for kids who have little tracking ships on their ankles pretty soon. Good thing I can design airplane structures!

Dan

 

[hokieflyer]

Archer,

I'm not much further along on the piloting side than you are (I'm working toward my Commercial) but I can relate to your career predicament. In my Junior year in Aerospace Engineering (8 years ago) I came very close to switching majors. Things were a little different for me though because I wasn't enjoying my line of study and knew I had no desire to be an AE after those first 3 years. (I was on the 5 year plan.) I ended up sticking it out and getting the degree. I then went on to get an MBA and now am not using either of the degrees. (I may even jump ship to the full-time pilot gig in a couple of years??)

But I don't for a second regret finishing the AE. While I've never used it and have forgotten the majority of what I learned, it did wonders for me. It really taught me how to learn tons of stuff, quickly. I was amazed how few of my friends in other majors ever pulled all-nighters studying for an exam, or even working on homework for a single class. MBA was an absolute cakewalk after AE, as has everything else I've had to learn through various "careers" since then.

The one thing I would have done differently is spent my free money on flying instead of beer. I took my first flying lesson the summer before my Junior year, but at the time I didn't think I could afford to go very far in flying so it took me 4 years to finally get my PVT. If I had it to over again, I'd have accelerated my flying and worked up to CFI, then done that part-time. By the time you get to the CFI you should have a much better feeling of whether full-time flying is for you or not. (At least this is my theory.)

It sounds like you do enjoy AE, so by all means finish it. Fly as much as you can afford to (time and money wise). If you decide to someday fly full-time, you'll be that much further ahead. If you decide it isn't for you, you'll have figured it out early in life and not have to play the "what-if" game down the road. At the very least, you're gaining a fantastic hobby, all be it an expensive one. Also, don't f-around in your studies. I graduated with a pi$$ poor GPA and couldn't have gotten an AE job if I had wanted to. I've been lucky that it didn't come back to haunt me, but it easily could have.

Lastly, maybe we could pull some kind of sitcomish switcharoo. I'll be you, you be me. You can use my citizenship and get a job here in the states with Boeing if you can get me job doing anything (grape picker, wine taster, Autogrill bathroom cleaner) in either Como, Tuscany or Amalfi. Whaddya say?

Good luck with whatever you choose.
hokieflyer

 

[CCDiscoB]

Corrected Vision

Archer wrote:

Until 9th grade, my goal was to become a fighter pilot. But at that time, my inherited (through my father) need for correction glasses shattered that goal as airforces don't accept vision less than 20/20.

Are you saying your vision is not correctable to 20/20? I ask because the military is not as strict with vision requirements as they used to be. I'd look into it.

 

[Archer]

hokieflyer, LOL

Great offer! Though, in some sense I lied. My main interest in Aero is the design of sub-orbital spaceplanes, and the companies that are working on this (for the X-prize too) are private ones that don't usually require citizenship...so I'm good in that sense...I'm specializing in propulsion specifically devoted to the sub-orbital regime...so that I might have a chance of getting a job at one of those companies if I ever decided to stick to being a rocket scientist

I get more surprised at the number of people who were or are Aeronautical Engineers at some point in their lives! That's 3 or 4 already in this thread!

Well, I' thinking finish up my AE degree, and get some ratings done meanwhile, and see what happens upon graduation. That seems like the best thing to do.

One thing. Right now I'm financing my PPL and all is fine. Yet once I do get it, paying 70 bucks/hour to fly as a PP to build up hours is going to be a little costly.

See, I got my group of best friends who are just waiting for me to get my PPL so we can all fly places in Indiana and the surrounding states. I am hoping to get my PPL before December of this year. If not, I'll have to wait till next Spring...as the weather here in Indiana does get really bad for flying...will all the snow storms et all.

But once I do get my PPL, my friends are willing to share the cost of flying so that it costs us roughly 17 to 25 bucks an hour per person depending on the aircraft I rent. Which is not horrible for me as I've been paying 100+ bucks/hour for dual and 70 bucks/hour solo. Yet I don't know if they'll be willing to fly as often as I would like to build my hours....

I must say, I could fly the 152 for 60 bucks or whatever with a friend, so that's 30 each....and that's 2 fewer people to ask to fly...but still...

so all of a sudden my brain is thinking "CFI"

See, I never really wanted or looked into getting a CFI. Actually, I'm not even sure about getting a Commercial. I'm definitely getting my Instrument, HP and complex and maybe later on my multi, those are pretty much definites since I love Instrument flying and multi engine aircraft (YOU GO SENECA! )

But CFI...never occured to me...what does it take to be a good CFI? I mean...you got to be the "Master" and know it all...so you don't teach a student the wrong things...or be stumped...

what kind of a person does it take to be a CFI? I mean, I know you need your Commercial/Instrument ratings...but I'm talking about a personal level...

oh, and CCdisco, after all those years, I've changed my mind on going military...I still love the thought of a Blue Angel requesting a high performance climb to 10,000 ft (I heard this from a fellow pilot on another MB)...but I think civilian aviation is for me...

NE ways....

fly safe!

Archer

 

[Delta3]

Purdue!

Hey Archer do you go to Purdue?

I'm a senior in AAE at Purdue.

 

[Dan CFI/CFII]

BTW-I'm a Purdue grad.

As to the CFI being the "master..." They SHOULD be, but I'm 99 percent sure I know where you are flying, and trust me, they've got more than one CFI who are bottom of the lowest barrel in my book... Of course, they've got a couple real good ones too.

To be a CFI, you've just got to be able to pass a checkride, but to be a good teacher, requires much more (specifically, the ability and willingness to teach). Do us all a favor, don't become a CFI if you don't want to be one, a CFI who dislikes what they do is a burden on the students pocketbook, and a drag for everyone they work with. But being a CFI is awesome (except for the pay)--I get to talk to people all day, buzz around the most beautiful country imagineable, in nice airplanes, and I get to work with some altogether fun people! To boot, I even get paid a mere pittance for it!

The only reason I got my CFI was because I once had a real bad one, and I decided I'd try to help keep people like him from having jobs as flight instructors...

Dan

 

[Archer]

Yes, I go to Purdue and fly out of Purdue University airport.

Did you get your PPL with Purdue or LA Delta3?

Dan...that's cool that you are a Boilermaker!

Archer