Fighters or Heavy's?

[Purple Haze]

Better late than never

Hey XNav,

That wasn't a TV dinner, it was hot pizza.....but the coffee was Starbucks! The image brought back some sweet memories--thanks.

To be honest, I don't keep a picture of myself on the fridge. Fighter pilots rock, but my wife digs me anyway.

For the original poster: If you have no idea what you want, you will probably figure it out after your first few months at UPT. If you love the intensity and want more of it, fly a fighter. If you would rather kick back and enjoy the scenery on a cross-country, go airlift. If you want to takeoff and enter holding until it's time to land, try tankers ---- just kidding (couldn't resist)

It's all good. Thank God for the choice.

Purple

 

[o2deprived]

While a the eyes of a lot of heavy drivers are on this thread... Does anybody know if there are going to be any ANG B-1 positions available after the proposed contraction of the fleet or will it be only regular AF? Looking into Heavy ANG upt spots for
the Herc at the moment. Got passed over for an A-10 slot (first try at the interview process) but I have good scores on my tests and just want to fly. Any suggestions? Even looking into the Corps. though that would be an active duty committment.

 

[Draginass]

O2 - To the best of my knowledge, B-1s will be completely OUT of the ANG inventory.

 

[o2deprived]

B-1

Would anybody know what would happen to current B-1 ANG pilots or pilots in the training pipeline if the proposed consolidation does happen with the GA and KS units? Applying to GA unit... Thanx

 

[Otto]

No more afterburner....

o2deprived,
The GaANG pipeline guys would probably have their choice of staying or leaving the unit. I had a buddy in flight school who was with a F-16 Guard unit (Iowa I think) and midway through school he got the word they were switching to KC-135's. They told him they completely understood if he wanted to go somewhere else so I assume GA would be the same way. Anyway...the deal at Warner Robins is that they are officially going to J-Stars. They start the transition in April and should be complete by September. The thinking was that all the heavy electronics in the back of the J-Star would keep all those B-1 maintanance folks employed. Needless to say the pilots aren't too happy about it. If you like eight hours of droning, it's probably a good time to get in as I know they'll be looking for pilots. Good Luck!

 

[DaveGriffin]

Naval Aviation study material

Here are some passages from USN avaiation study material I thought some of the undecided might like to see:


The only three things a wingman should say are:
1.) Yes, SIR!
2.) Lead, you're on fire!
3.) I'll take the fat chick.

In a multi-piloted aircraft, there are only three things the co-pilot should say:
1.) Nice landing, sir.
2.) I'll buy the first round.
3.) I'll take the fat chick.

FLY NAVY

 

[furloboy]

Back to your original question...

If you don't know that you want to fly fighters the instant you see one, there's a good chance you won't enjoy them.

But there's always the exception. Give some consideration to joining the "Boy Racer" crowd--we run with scissors, take three times the recommended dosage, and tear "do not remove under penalty of law" tags off of pillows. We also talk too loud, are entirely self-centered and know no strangers. It's like being in junior high again except that we don't have to lie about the chicks (well, most of the time).

I've loved every minute of it--20+ years.

S/F,
Furloboy

 

[av8instyle]

Fx vs. Cx

I guess I'll throw in a little blurb:

I don't agree that you'll figure it out in UPT. Because aside from the fact that the T-38 is a swept wing, supersonic jet that you'll pull G's in and fly formation, that's where the similarities stop. Those basics are exactly that-basics.

The things you do in a fighter (Basic Fighter Maneuvers, Air Combat Maneuvers, Air Combat Tactics, Basic Surface Attack, and Surface Attack Tactics) you won't even get a sniff of until you graduate UPT.

I'll be honest, although most guys will tell you UPT was the greatest time of their lives, I personally though it sucked. But after UPT I had a blast. Flying the F-16 is without a doubt the most fun I've ever had (with pants on). However, caveat with what was said above regarding actual time in jet is true. I think the average time per year in a fighter is around 200 hrs. There's a lot of preparation that goes into a mission. But the 200 hours is all busy work. There's very rarely a dull moment.

If you even think for a little bit that you want it, you should go for it.

Remember one thing-there's only one chance in your lifetime to fly fighters. You can always fly airliners.

Oh, and one other thing, flying a low level in a B-1 with bombs still does not even come close to making it a fighter.

 

[HueyPilot]

Airliners?

I don't agree with the notion that flying USAF heavies is the same as flying an airliner. No civilian-trained airline pilot that I know of ever flew a four-engined turboprop 300 feet off the ground in a 4 ship formation and precisely dropping their cargo on a DZ, at night with goggles. Nor do any of them land a 150,000 lb airplane on a 3,000 foot dirt airstrip with a 4-5 degree glidepath at night either.

Unless you fly some of the more boring aircraft (E-3, E-8, EC-130, C-5), you'll do some interesting stuff regardless of whether you're a heavy, bomber or fighter pilot. Pick your own destiny.

 

[av8instyle]

A heavy is a heavy

Unless you fly some of the more boring aircraft (E-3, E-8, EC-130, C-5),

I think these are all heavies. I can't think of one fighter that's even remotely considered boring.

No civilian-trained airline pilot that I know of ever flew a four-engined turboprop 300 feet off the ground in a 4 ship formation and precisely dropping their cargo on a DZ, at night with goggles.

And no "four-engined turbo prop pilot" that flies in gogs at three hundred feet in a four ship gets to smell the perfume of a hot blonde serving him a hot meal.

By the way, I know of several civilian pilots to this day that fly one, two, and four engine piston and turboprop airplanes on 1000 foot dirt, and ice strips, as well as ramps. We're talking 50 knots straight across. And, oh by the way, this approach is done routinely by loran since there are no VOR's any where for hundreds of miles. You occassionally get the token NDB, though.
And, if I remember correctly, Alaska Airlines flies B737's onto gravel strips every day, and I'm quite sure they're pretty short.

Next arguement.

There are two kinds of airplanes, fighters and targets.

 

[HueyPilot]

...and an attitude is an attitude...

The 'Fighter pilots are cool and everyone else sucks' thing is exactly why I didn't go T-38's when I had the chance. I'm pretty low-key, and I certainly don't like people who are self-promoters.

Next subject...my wife is a blonde, thank you very much...and I enjoy her perfume regularly.

Thanks for tossing the odd bush pilot example in there....I was talking about AIRLINE pilots, not humanitarian flights in Africa. Flying a 737 into a gravel strip requires a special cert, just like it does for any other heavy pilot. It's still challenging, airframe type notwithstanding. The simple fact is that most people who choose the -130 community do so because they like the mission. There are a few that are there because they were 'stuck' there, but most want to be there. I've got several friends who are civilian-trained airline pilots, and none of them have ever gotten to fly a low-level, much less any of the other stuff I posted.

To be completely honest, I never WANTED to fly a fighter. I'm not all that interested in the air-to-air mission, and dropping bombs doesn't have the same appeal to me as it might to someone else. I've done the tactical side of things flying for the Army...dealing with calling in artillery, learning threats and aircraft survivability equipment. It was fun, but I hated flying around the flagpole all the time.

My advice to anyone trying to decide what to do....Just do what you want to do. Don't let someone drag you into something because they say 'it's cool' or because you think you'll get more dates on Friday night. If it takes flying a fighter to get a date, then that's saying something right there. Flying fighters is challenging....I won't lie and say it isnt'. But flying Herks can be just as challenging. Hell, the hardest aircraft I ever flew was a Bell JetRanger. It was harder to fly than anything else I've ever flown, even the T-38 sim. And it only cruised at 100 knots. But try landing with a stiff quartering tailwind, and you'll have your hands full.

 

[av8instyle]

Whose attitude?

The 'Fighter pilots are cool and everyone else sucks' thing is exactly why I didn't go T-38's when I had the chance. I'm pretty low-key, and I certainly don't like people who are self-promoters. To be completely honest, I never WANTED to fly a fighter

Sure, you and everyone else that chose helos over fighters. Hey, if you actually wanted helos good on ya. I personally would love to fly helos, more so than heavies, and I know they're a challenging type of flying. But I gotta be honest, I've yet to meet a heavy/helo pilot that didn't get a choice of fighters. For some reason EVERY heavy/helo pilot turned down fighters for their respective airframe. Hmmm.

my wife is a blonde, thank you very much...and I enjoy her perfume regularly

Good on ya.

Thanks for tossing the odd bush pilot example in there....I was talking about AIRLINE pilots, not humanitarian flights in Africa

I too was talking about AIRLINE pilots, not humanitarian flights in Africa. And there's gonna be a lot of "non-airline" pilots that read this post that might just take offense to your comment. They ARE AIRLINE pilots, and deserve such credit. Believe me, they earn their money!

The simple fact is that most people who choose the -130 community do so because they like the mission.

I agree. Had I not been able to go Fighters I also would have elected to go 130/Helos. However, this is a Fighter vs. Heavy board, not Fighters vs. C-130's. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe you called the others "boring".

Don't let someone drag you into something because they say 'it's cool' or because you think you'll get more dates on Friday night.

I wouldn't "drag" anyone into a fighter. Flying 500 knots at 500 feet while carrying a six pack of GBU-12's, and six missiles aimed at a four ship of Archer/Alamo carrying Mig-29's into SAM entrenched Baghdad, all while trying to maintain visual formation with your three flight members, work your air-to-air radar, and acquire your target either visually, or with the targeting pod, designate the target, and put bombs on it, while you dodge telephone poles, and triple A, is not something I would want to do with someone who didn't want to be there. Was that a run on sentence?

Hell, the hardest aircraft I ever flew was a Bell JetRanger. It was harder to fly than anything else I've ever flown, even the T-38 sim.

You know what, flying fighters IS cool. But that's not why we do it. I too have some good varied experience. I have flown for the commuters, in the Alaskan bush, and for a Major. And without a doubt, the most challenging flying I have done is in the F-16. I'm sure you liked the T-38 sim. But flying the T-38 is nothing more than flying a swept wing Tweet, and I know from your profile that you've flown that. The T-38 is a simple airplane. It is very basic. The thing that makes it intimidating is that it looks fast (which it is), and it looks like a fighter (which it is not).
Like I said before, UPT (T-38) is nothing like the RTU for the Fighter. Completely different world.

There are a lot of helo and C-130 civilian operators that do some pretty interesting jobs. Don't discount all civilian flying as boring without all the facts. I guarantee you outside of the military you will NOT fly an F-14, 15, 16, 18, or A-10.

My intent was not to slam heavy drivers, hell I drive one for the airlines. I said it once and I'll say it again: If you have any desire to fly fighters and you're going into UPT, THIS IS YOUR ONE SHOT PERIOD

 

[HueyPilot]

C-130s rule

I never intended to slam fighters or fighter pilots. They do what they do very well, and I'll be the first to say that it is indeed a demanding job. And to be honest with ya, if the USAF would let me take an F-15 or F-16 and just do what I want with it, I'd jump on it. But, they won't.

As for the whole T-38 thing, I had my chance to select fighters, but I turned it down. T-38s was third on my dream sheet behind T-1s and T-44s. I knew I wanted a C-130, but I also wanted to fly the C-21 to get some more jet time and upgrade faster. So that's why I wound up with a C-21 with a tactical airlift follow-on. My Tweet flight commander sat down with me and asked me if I really wanted to go heavy (he was one of those ex-heavy pilots that really wanted to fly fighters), and he was concerned that I was passing up an opportunity. Actually, I was passing up HIS idea of an opportunity, sort of like the parent trying to live vicariously through their kids thing.

In the end, I felt good about my decision, because I got what I wanted, and a couple friends got T-38s that they otherwise wouldn't have (there were a couple of us that put heavies first when we could have gone fighter/bomber). Both of those guys are loving their new lives as a B-1 pilot and a Tweet FAIP with a fighter follow-on. I'm perfectly happy with what I'm doing, and the other dude who could have gone Talons is now happy flying C-17s.

Most (not all) of the guys I know that flew for the Army wanted to fly heavies. I'm not certain what their reasons were, but many came from a crewed helicopter and wanted to fly a crewed airplane. I guess it's just a world that we knew well and didn't want to leave. I'm perfectly comfortable in my decisions, and I honestly wouldn't have done it any other way.

But I'd have to agree with you on one count....if anyone wants to fly a fighter, the military is your only shot at it. As for flying Herk style, you're also right....you may be able to do that on the outside, but it's highly unlikely that you'll be wearing a United Airlines uniform while doing it. Personally, my greatest attraction to the Herk is still being close to the tip of the spear, and anytime CNN is covering some world event, you know that there's a Herk involved to some extent. Plus, I've always been a sucker for the underdog...and being a slow prop-powered crate that flies like a garbage truck (but lasts like a workhorse) has to be one of the all-time underdogs of the 21st Century USAF.