Fighter Disputes

[Dizel8]

Maybe those not in harms way just need to allocate the money better.

But is has to be said, of course the military budget has decreased, the cold war and the military race is over.

I may be in the minority, but it strikes me, that a real shooting war, between USA and so called "superpowers" is most unlikely. China seems to have decided that trade is better than mao and as for the russians, despite their posturing, they still seem to be stuck in the past, after all, if all they can do is refurbish some old bombers..........

 

[Dizel8]

Hey, I appreciate your service and all of those in our armed services.

As for a shooting war and having the upper hand, I think there is little doubt that the US will come out on top. Through out the cold war, the equipment and training far surpassed that of Russia, the big equalizer was nukes. Both sides had them and even though the russian targeting technology was relatively inaccurate and the weapons somewhat crude, compared to US standards, they were still ugly.

From what I understand, the F22 is simply amazing, but in low level conflicts, say like Iraq, Afghanistan, Kosovo etc., it would seem that the F-15/F16 would do just fine. Are those fighters getting older, certainly, but so is the A-10 and while the Air Force was trying to dump it, it certainly has proved its worth in Iraq.

Even at 10 million a copy to upgrade the F-15: spar, engines, avionics etc, that is a bargain, and one that would allow the air force to field a larger fighter regiment and one that, IMHO, would be equally effective. Not everything in the inventory needs to be able to shoot down the Millenium Falcon at light speed.

Besides, I doubt you will fight many hot blooded F-15 fighter jocks, who doesn't believe they wil come out victorius against anything the Chinese or the Russians can field.

 

[CatfishVT9]

All you warmongers just don't get it. Soon there will be no need for Raptors or JSFs. Once Obama gets elected, we'll pull out of all wars and he will make peace with the islamo-fascists by sending them fresh granola from California.

Besides, with $850 BILLION in new programs, we can't afford the military any more.

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and for the stupid ones here (you know who you are), look up sarcasm in the dictionary.

 

[AlbieF15]

Hey, I appreciate your service and all of those in our armed services.

As for a shooting war and having the upper hand, I think there is little doubt that the US will come out on top. Through out the cold war, the equipment and training far surpassed that of Russia, the big equalizer was nukes. Both sides had them and even though the russian targeting technology was relatively inaccurate and the weapons somewhat crude, compared to US standards, they were still ugly.

From what I understand, the F22 is simply amazing, but in low level conflicts, say like Iraq, Afghanistan, Kosovo etc., it would seem that the F-15/F16 would do just fine. Are those fighters getting older, certainly, but so is the A-10 and while the Air Force was trying to dump it, it certainly has proved its worth in Iraq.

Even at 10 million a copy to upgrade the F-15: spar, engines, avionics etc, that is a bargain, and one that would allow the air force to field a larger fighter regiment and one that, IMHO, would be equally effective. Not everything in the inventory needs to be able to shoot down the Millenium Falcon at light speed.

Besides, I doubt you will fight many hot blooded F-15 fighter jocks, who doesn't believe they wil come out victorius against anything the Chinese or the Russians can field.

Dizel8,

I flew the mighty Eagle for 15 years...got over 2000 hours in the thing. It is a mighty beast.

It is also old. It has a huge RCS. Our advantage the last 15 years has been with superior tactics, training, and avionics. But...as Magnum has pointed out...our enemies don't sit in a vaccum in awe of use...they work on improving their own capabilities.

When the F15 was touted in the early 70s, the mantra was "smaller and cheaper" was better. The F 5 Tigershark was proposed as a viable alternative, and the F16 also came out of those discussions. At the time, the F15 was overpriced overkill. And yet...we made the investment and got 30+ years of amortized use out of the jets. I see a similar outcome for the Raptor. It is expensive. It does have teething issues. So did the Eagle, and to a lesser extent the F16 as well. We aren't just buying new fighters for 2008, we are buying them for 2018, 2028, and 2038.

And when I fought the Raptors...they kicked my butt. And I was NOT holding anything back...

 

[Dizel8]

Albie,

It isn't that I do not think the F-22 is amazing, from all accounts it is two generations ahead of everything else flying. That is a very good thing.

The question I have though, wrt procurements of more F-22s at a 120M a piece, is that it would appear to me, that spending the relatively few dollars to fix the F-15s make fiscal sense and it would allow the Air Force to have more airframes available for any fight.

I don't fly a fighter, so I have no idea how the F-15 stacks up against Russian or Chinese hardware, but if history is any indication, it would seem reasonable to believe, that the F-15 (or for that matter, the F-16 and F-18) is still shoulders above any other countrys front line fighter.

Certainly there is little doubt im my mind, that the US fighter pilot is the best in the world.

The parallel I see is the B-2 vs the B-52, yes the B-2 is an extraordinary bomber, but the old B-52 keeps soldiering on and appears to have quite a few more years on it.

I guess what I am trying to say is, that even if the cost to repair the F-15 is a million dollars a piece, then fixing 500 of them, is about the cost of 4 F-22s. I think, having 500 F-15s is better than getting four more F-22s.

Maybe I am wrong, my wife says I often am

 

[SIG600]

I don't fly a fighter, so I have no idea how the F-15 stacks up against Russian or Chinese hardware, but if history is any indication, it would seem reasonable to believe, that the F-15 (or for that matter, the F-16 and F-18) is still shoulders above any other countrys front line fighter.

They don't stack up well... we'll leave it at that. The New gen fighters that Magnum listed off are a serious threat to our capabilities, and our ability to stand up against anyone that tries to impose their will on us.

 

[Hawg68]

Magnum PMs

Sorry to highjack this post....

Magnum, do you ever check your PMs? You started a thread a couple of months ago ref CBM reserves and I sent you some good info and never got a response....

Just curious. Trying to hook a brutha up...

Hawg

 

[Huggyu2]

...wrt procurements of more F-22s at a 120M a piece,...
...I guess what I am trying to say is, that even if the cost to repair the F-15 is a million dollars a piece, then fixing 500 of them, is about the cost of 4 F-22s. I think, having 500 F-15s is better than getting four more F-22s.

Depends on your math.
F-22 EMD runs about $19B. Production costs are ~$41B. Total: $60B. Divide by 183 jets, and each F-22 costs ~$325M. That's a lot of scratch.

 

[Dizel8]

The cost per F-22 I have seen is quoted as between 120-140M a piece, but I have little doubt your numbers are accurate.

So for one and a half F-22 we could repair 500 F-15s and even though it is old, seems like they still do a great job in many areas.

 

[SIG600]

The cost per F-22 I have seen is quoted as between 120-140M a piece, but I have little doubt your numbers are accurate.

So for one and a half F-22 we could repair 500 F-15s and even though it is old, seems like they still do a great job in many areas.

Ok, a bunch of guys in the know have told you multiple times that you are wrong. You're out of your league in this discussion, and you don't fully understand capabilities/tactics that are out there. Nor is it anything you need to know, or will be talked about on here. Give it a rest already.