FFDO Training: Reloader?

[Swede]

FN FAL, you need to try S&B. It's not the cheapest, but it's still cheap. Big thing is that it's oh-so consistent, and reasonably clean too. I prefer it to Win. white box, UMC, most other blasting ammo. I still haven't tried Wolf. I'd like to, because I don't give a hoot about the steel cases. What's an Uzi bbl cost, like $20? Just want to be sure it's reliable/consistent.

I think any ammo which squibs or isn't consistent is simply dangerous in a machine gun. Think of where your hand is located... round squibs, lodges a bullet, action cycles, next round fires. Ow. I know you're aware of this stuff.


You are one patient dude if you police all your brass after blowing 1,000 rounds downrange!

 

[Swede]

Now that we've totally jacked this thread, can anyone post links and resources to get signed up for FFDO? There's one anti-gun Capt. I really want to impress!

 

[FN FAL]

FN FAL, you need to try S&B. It's not the cheapest, but it's still cheap. Big thing is that it's oh-so consistent, and reasonably clean too. I prefer it to Win. white box, UMC, most other blasting ammo. I still haven't tried Wolf. I'd like to, because I don't give a hoot about the steel cases. What's an Uzi bbl cost, like $20? Just want to be sure it's reliable/consistent.

I think any ammo which squibs or isn't consistent is simply dangerous in a machine gun. Think of where your hand is located... round squibs, lodges a bullet, action cycles, next round fires. Ow. I know you're aware of this stuff.


You are one patient dude if you police all your brass after blowing 1,000 rounds downrange!

Yes, S&B is on the shopping list! The wife and I were discussing the grease gun conversion this morning for the full sized. Maybe Chris Wheatly's (sp?). I haven't looked, but does S&B do .45 ACP?

I'm not looking forward to my first squib...but at least in pistol calibers I won't have to commit suicide after seeing a 15,000 dollar registered M-16 lower self destruct, like some others would.

As far as policing up the spent ones...the cheap blue tarp from fleet farm does all the work...we just roll it up and walk it over to our own 5 gallon pail or to the garbage can and shake it out. Got to keep the range friendly to mass consumers or I will be forced to buy a farm just to have a place to shoot.

FFDO? heading over to google now...let you know what I find later...

 

[FN FAL]

Here's a primer...(pun intended)...

http://www.tsa.gov/public/display?theme=40&content=0900051980083738

Just do a search on google, I typed in "ffdo program" and quite a few links came up. This is their application and information site.

What is your anti-gun captain's problem with Swede, guns in general or the FFDO program?

 

[Tripower455]

I have not had good experience with Wolf rifle ammo.... I bought some 5.56 to use in my AR, and it was very inconsistent in charge round to round, and whatever the F&$$ they use for case lube gummed up the chamber of my AR but good. Whatever propellent they use is nasty as well (smells horrible and dirtys up EVERYTHING in the gun! I have owned this rifle since 1986, and it has NEVER jammed in any way shape or form with factory ammo, until I used Wolf. IMHO, Wolf is fine for the loose chambered guns like AK's, SKS' (or any of the other ComBloc weapons designed around this ammo), subguns, some pistols etc., but anything else, I won't use it.

Just my $.02+

I would also be leery about using any steel cased ammo in a gun with a fixed extractor (like a 1911), since it relies somewhat on the "give" in the brass rim for extractor tension. Years ago, I broke an extractor on my .45 using WWII vintage steel cased stuff that a friend gave me (it was also mildly corrosive, as I found out ! ) . That free ammo cost me about $100 in '86, when I really couldn't afford it!

YMMV, but I'll pay the extra $1.00 or so a box.

Most military surplus ammo is good, depending on the caliber, age, condition and county of origin. I shoot nothing but milsurp in my FALS, and ARs and sometimes my FN Hi Power (I got some real nice South African surplus 9mm real cheap a few years back), and have never had any issues whatsoever. Load up, shoot and maybe clean afterwards. And it's not too much more expensive than the Wolf. I don't think I've even cleaned the HP since I've been using this stuff, and it's got about 1500 rds of this SA stuff through it.

The S&B as Swede suggests is GREAT ammo..... I use it in most all of my pistols, and is one of the few, current production cartridges that will function properly in my Title 2, M-2 Carbine. I suspect that SAAMI has lowered the allowable pressures on commercial .30 Carbine loads, due to the mean age of these guns. I was having fits trying to get more than 2-3 shots fired in FA (short cycling with a classic stovepipe) using the various generic brands (Win USA, UMC, Federal red box) when I found 500 rounds of '50's vintage LC surplus, that functioned FLAWLESSLY, with a noticeable difference in report and recoil. This is not unique to my Carbine either. I have video of 3 of us firing M-2s at the same time, me using my reloads, and the other guys using USA. I got through 2 30 round mags way before those guys got through 1. Both were stovepiping every 2-3 shots with Win. USA.

I've also had good results with MagTech for clean yet cheap blasiting ammo.


As far as the reloader for the FFDO training.... not necessary, or so I've been told. They will probably let you use it, but, imho, it won't save any time, and (I've heard) that the H&K mags aren't too bad on the thumb, especially the well used range mags that I've heard they use for training. I imagine that they will practically load themselves, unlike some sub gun mags that take about 100 lbs of pressure to get the last few rounds in!

I've also heard that the FFDO training is actually kind of fun, so, enjoy it!

(Say hi to W.T. when you get there.....)

 

[Swede]

Tripower, you've made some very valid observations. I think if I had a valuable, gas-operated firearm, I'd spend the extra $$ for clean, consistent ammo. I do think Wolf will be fine for any open-bolt gun like an Uzi or Sten. These guns are made to function in the most horrible conditions imaginable, and are stout. Best part is that replacement barrels and maybe an extractor are so cheap as to be nearly freebies. But yes I can see a dirty cartrdge being a detriment to a gas weapon. AR barrels, extractors, etc. aren't cheap either.

Maybe the "new" wolf polymer coating will make a difference, at least with chamber gunking.

FN FAL thanks for the FFDO lookup. The Capt in question is simply a dude who is afraid of guns, thinks some judo move is all we need when 4 well-trained, lean, and dangerous terrorists bust down the door.

My vision of a safe cockpit includes a mini-uzi clamped to the wall right next to the crash axe and the fire extinguisher. Pilots each carry two 25rd mags in their kitbag, right next to the SiG handgun in their bag's side pocket.

 

[avbug]

I don't use aluminum cases on the principle (blazer is now out in brass), due to the inability to reuse the cases.

I don't shoot steel cases due to extractor wear.

Wolf has changed the lacquer used on the cases, but they're still steel. Steel scratches your chamber, and wears your extractor. Older wolf ammo did build up in the chamber, especially in the AR series of weapons.

In my AR weapons, I fire only Federal X193 55 grain. With different twist rates for barrels, SS109 isn't a bad choice, though I haven't found anything better, especially in military chambers (not .223) better than the federal round. It's all Lake City components, and that's definitely a plus.

As for excessive penetration with subweapons, .223 has far less public risk or overpenetration risk, especially in urban engagements, than 9mm. If you're talking home defense, 5.56/.223 is far less risky for overpenetration, especially in building structures, wallboard, etc, than 9mm. It's for that reason that many tactical teams have gone back to AR's and A4's instead of the ubiquitous MP5 (still and outstanding firearm).

Who pays sixteen thousand for a registered M16? That's far beyond reasonable.

Reloader? You're kidding. Right?