fellow COEX'ers

[vmc-hound]

I overheard (I was in the head...validity not sure but for some reason I get the best new cra p while taking one but anyway) that middle management felt they had a pretty good working relationship with the pilots but it was the "Reamster" and the bean counters...what is the real story?

 

[Kill Bob]

You're right. But sometimes I can't help myself...

-Neal

How bout' helping your pilot group? Do any Red-eye flying latley? Gave that up like a cheap whore?? I don't believe your pilot group got to vote on that? -- OK guys - here is the deal - we will do whatever managment wants us to do during negotiations - Because they are our friends and we should help them out - so we really don't need to vote on this- or get anything in return for doing it. How bout' helping the pilot group out- let them decide what they will or will not do for the company - stop negotiating the old contract and start negotiating the new one--- K.B.

 

[MJG]

How bout' helping your pilot group? Do any Red-eye flying latley? Gave that up like a cheap whore?? I don't believe your pilot group got to vote on that? -- so we really don't need to vote on this- or get anything in return for doing it.--K.B.

Hmmmm.....

Red-eye flying creates new pilot positions in IAH, both captain and fo. Therebye giving fo's the opportunity to upgrade to captain sooner, getting reserve captains the opportunity to get off reserve faster, and hiring more pilots from off the street therebye moving everyone up the already stagnant seniorty list. It also puts more pilots on the seniority list below you which is additional job protection for you. There was no vote because it was a win win situation for all involved. The decision was made to allow the flying long before negotiations came to a standstill and Jimmy gave his little presentation to the pilots, so there was no reason to deny it or play hardball at the time.

It also generates additional revenue in a time when that is starting to dry up. Therebye giving the company additional funds with which to fund your eventual pay raise.

 

[Air Biscuit]

Hmmmm.....

Red-eye flying creates new pilot positions in IAH, both captain and fo. Therebye giving fo's the opportunity to upgrade to captain sooner, getting reserve captains the opportunity to get off reserve faster, and hiring more pilots from off the street therebye moving everyone up the already stagnant seniorty list. It also puts more pilots on the seniority list below you which is additional job protection for you. There was no vote because it was a win win situation for all involved. The decision was made to allow the flying long before negotiations came to a standstill and Jimmy gave his little presentation to the pilots, so there was no reason to deny it or play hardball at the time.

It also generates additional revenue in a time when that is starting to dry up. Therebye giving the company additional funds with which to fund your eventual pay raise.

I disagree. Red-eye flying regardless of the benefits to the pilot group should have not just been agreed to. It's called leverage. This is something management wanted. We got nothing for it. Not smart in my opinion. Prop MOU. LOA 15. When will the union wake up. We are grossly underpaid and we just keep giving without getting anything in return. Who in the hell wants to do red-eye flying anyway. If you want red-eye flying go fly freight for a living.

 

[Air Biscuit]

One more thing. We are grossly underpaid as it is. Who cares about job security when the guy serving your fries at the airport makes as much money as you do. If you can even afford them. Most guys I fly with have to look forward to the free mystery meat disks and snacks they brought from home. What a joke. Until we are able to exercise our right to strike I am not all that optimistic that our union will be able to put out a respectable TA. 29% sorry. Not even close.

 

[CEO silly sap]

oh,


The battles begin, EA getting recalled, Neg Chair-gone.
Back side of the clock flying- 3 capts, 3 fo's.........oh the inflow of new pilots.....


Blu Dev, I'm sure you are good at what you do, I wish you and the pilot group the best of luck.



EX TWAY

 

[Sam Fisher]

oh,


The battles begin, EA getting recalled, Neg Chair-gone.
Back side of the clock flying- 3 capts, 3 fo's.........oh the inflow of new pilots.....


Blu Dev, I'm sure you are good at what you do, I wish you and the pilot group the best of luck.



EX TWAY

1. The EA hasn't been recalled nor will he be recalled.

2. The NC Chairman resigned on his own volition. Maybe has something to do with twins entering his world on top of his already sizeable family as well as the fact that he hasn't flown in a few years and misses the line. That full time union stuff probably burns people out.

3. Red-Eye flying is from June to September. 1 flight per night, 1 city. Woopie. People get their panties in a wad over nothing.

Who are you CEO Silly? I'd guess the father of one of our pilots?

Sam

 

[CEO silly sap]

1. The EA hasn't been recalled nor will he be recalled.

2. The NC Chairman resigned on his own volition. Maybe has something to do with twins entering his world on top of his already sizeable family as well as the fact that he hasn't flown in a few years and misses the line. That full time union stuff probably burns people out.

3. Red-Eye flying is from June to September. 1 flight per night, 1 city. Woopie. People get their panties in a wad over nothing.

Who are you CEO Silly? I'd guess the father of one of our pilots?

Sam

Sam you would be wrong on your guess. I am an old pilot that has been up and down with ALPA and the contracts. I asked a few questions and got various responses.

I think your support is note worthy, please keep being a supporter.


Red eye flying, I expect this 1 flight per night to 1 city, will turn into a more common schedule. Your company did not just think this up out of the blue. There is a plan, make no mistake, there is always a plan.
The question is do YOU know the plan, and if not- what is YOUR plan.

Its obvious my posts are unwelcome and I shall leave this thread to your pilot group. Good Luck and Best wishes

 

[Sam Fisher]

Sam you would be wrong on your guess. I am an old pilot that has been up and down with ALPA and the contracts. I asked a few questions and got various responses.

I think your support is note worthy, please keep being a supporter.


Red eye flying, I expect this 1 flight per night to 1 city, will turn into a more common schedule. Your company did not just think this up out of the blue. There is a plan, make no mistake, there is always a plan.
The question is do YOU know the plan, and if not- what is YOUR plan.

Its obvious my posts are unwelcome and I shall leave this thread to your pilot group. Good Luck and Best wishes

It isn't that the fact that you are posting is unwelcome but rather in HOW you post and in HOW you say what you say that is vitriolic and not well-received.

The Red-Eye flying is only one city. Approval was only given for one city. They can't do any other cities without ALPA's approval and I highly doubt that they will give any further approval given the state of negotiations.

If you are just an interested pilot, how did you get the info on our chairman, etc?

Sam

 

[Kill Bob]

Hmmmm.....

Red-eye flying creates new pilot positions in IAH, both captain and fo. Therebye giving fo's the opportunity to upgrade to captain sooner, getting reserve captains the opportunity to get off reserve faster, and hiring more pilots from off the street therebye moving everyone up the already stagnant seniorty list. It also puts more pilots on the seniority list below you which is additional job protection for you. There was no vote because it was a win win situation for all involved. The decision was made to allow the flying long before negotiations came to a standstill and Jimmy gave his little presentation to the pilots, so there was no reason to deny it or play hardball at the time.

It also generates additional revenue in a time when that is starting to dry up. Therebye giving the company additional funds with which to fund your eventual pay raise.

Yeah - lets talk about all the Captains this is producing--- and the great movement they will have now - OH - what about the Prop MOU? Yeah didn't get crap for that or even attempt to- How bout something for the effort- Gunga -Gu - Nunga(You will recieve total consciousness on your death bed). You know Red eye - Mou- those are just the topics - its the total lack of communication to the pilot group and the "We are the Union and We know whats best for you attitude" - So they pay you 102 hours trip loss -plus expenses- plus hotel cost - etc.etc.etc. -They have a guy getting 102 hrs pay for setting up strike centers? - When all we here from the union is - the NMB will never allow us to strike????? Everybody I know that works there has a second job - SHUT THE PLACE DOWN- Walk away --- But at least give the people the right to vote on their own future. I could be wrong-maybe the pilot group is willing to go for 9%?? How bout asking the JIM's what their plan is for the future? - bigger buses? Hey if its a good plan - give the pilot group a piece of the company and maybe they will come down to some sort of profit sharing - But give the pilot group some real no sh8t info - and let them vote on the decisions that they will have to live with for the next 4-5 years. It ain't about the Red-eye or the Prop MOU- its about listening to the guys that put you there- Don't be a politician- be a freakin pilot first - and respect the guys and gals that showed faith in putting you there. K.B.

 

[Sam Fisher]

Yeah - lets talk about all the Captains this is producing--- and the great movement they will have now - OH - what about the Prop MOU? Yeah didn't get crap for that or even attempt to- How bout something for the effort- Gunga -Gu - Nunga(You will recieve total consciousness on your death bed). You know Red eye - Mou- those are just the topics - its the total lack of communication to the pilot group and the "We are the Union and We know whats best for you attitude" - So they pay you 102 hours trip loss -plus expenses- plus hotel cost - etc.etc.etc. -They have a guy getting 102 hrs pay for setting up strike centers? - When all we here from the union is - the NMB will never allow us to strike????? Everybody I know that works there has a second job - SHUT THE PLACE DOWN- Walk away --- But at least give the people the right to vote on their own future. I could be wrong-maybe the pilot group is willing to go for 9%?? How bout asking the JIM's what their plan is for the future? - bigger buses? Hey if its a good plan - give the pilot group a piece of the company and maybe they will come down to some sort of profit sharing - But give the pilot group some real no sh8t info - and let them vote on the decisions that they will have to live with for the next 4-5 years. It ain't about the Red-eye or the Prop MOU- its about listening to the guys that put you there- Don't be a politician- be a freakin pilot first - and respect the guys and gals that showed faith in putting you there. K.B.

Not sure your post is anything more than emotional chest-thumping. Nobody claimed that the Red-Eye flying was going to produce gobs of movement. I believe the union blastmail said 3 captain spots and 3 FO spots.

Prop MOU? Didn't get "crap" for it? If I remember correctly, our furloughees got a chance to fly at Commutair or Skywest. I also remember them getting medical benefits on day 1 of their return to XJT as opposed to 6 months later. Seems to me that they were the ones most adversely affected and they were taken care of quite nicely by ALPA. I also recall being at a union meeting where the NC did in fact say they attempted to obtain captain spots over there for our current pilots - although they were unsuccessful, they did try.

Lack of communication to the pilot group? I just received a 12-page letter telling me everything I wanted to know about our negotiations process and more...I've gone to a few LEC meetings and at every single one, the reps and the NC have been quite forthright with information.

"We are the union and we know what's best..."??? From speaking to our reps and NC, I do not get that attitude at all. They are privy to more information than you and I and from what I can tell, they have done a fairly good job at leveling with us lately and being quite open and honest.

102 hours? Expenses? Who cares. These guys work far more than you and I and any other line bubba. I flew that much last month and I had 13 days off. I don't think those guys, especially the NC, have that much time off.

Shut the place down? Go ahead. Try it. You are clueless.

Give the people the right to vote on their future? I am pretty confident that we will have a chance to vote on our future, should we ever get a TA.

Ask the Jim's about their plan? I also believe, from reading our blastmail (do you actually get and read them?) that our MEC reps met with the Jim's 2 months back and discussed future plans, etc with them.

Who are politicians? Who are these reps who don't fly and don't remember what it is like to be a line pilot?

Dude, you are full of hot air and nothing more than a blowhard. I'll see you at the IAH LEC Meeting this Monday I presume? Perhaps you should air your emotional frustrations there, eh?

Sam

 

[skychaser]

Mr. CEO Silly Sap:

Management's last offer is not only above Mesa +1% but also would put us #2 in pay, ahead of Skywest and CHQ, yet behind Comair in hard pay rates. This does not count the money from the profit sharing program, which would add another 7% to 9% to a pilot's W-2. Throw in a significantly improved Scheduling Section, a Retirement Plan that is head and shoulders above anyone else flying 50 seaters, other significant contract improvements, and I think it is safe to say that we won't be anywhere near Mesa.

With that said, our pilot group has not accepted nor will it accept or ratify management's last offer. Time will tell what happens of course and I, nor anyone, can predict where this thing will shake out. Should you want to discuss this in a more productive manner, drop me a PM and we can talk on the phone or via IM or email.

-Neal

Well said Neal. Keep up the fight!

 

[CEO silly sap]

when are you guys going to walk?
Kill-BOB. you have no clue about what you speak, so shut up.

 

[Nova]

Not going to happen until the NMB lets us.

 

[AA717driver]

Never leave the property. Death by a thousand cuts.

The hand that rocks the throttle rules the airline! Good luck.TC

 

[paid4training]

what about a "sickout" that is not covered by the mediator?....yea my spelling sucks so bite me!!!!

 

[CEO silly sap]

Never leave the property. Death by a thousand cuts.

The hand that rocks the throttle rules the airline! Good luck.TC

There is an individual that knows how the game is played.

VERY WELL STATED AA717

 

[CEO silly sap]

what about a "sickout" that is not covered by the mediator?....yea my spelling sucks so bite me!!!!

Very bad idea, all though it will give the pilot group a WAD to blow, the overall effect will be nada. Your lawyers will be fighting the company and then who will direct the Union.

Call for a strike vote from your leaders and get that paperwork rolling.
Tell the NMB, we are just about done with this, of course they can cool both of your teams.
Tell the Union officials to look the other way and let the pilots take the reins.


You pilots need to remember its your union and your careers,



and kill bob

 

[paid4training]

Very bad idea, all though it will give the pilot group a WAD to blow, the overall effect will be nada. Your lawyers will be fighting the company and then who will direct the Union.

Call for a strike vote from your leaders and get that paperwork rolling.
Tell the NMB, we are just about done with this, of course they can cool both of your teams.
Tell the Union officials to look the other way and let the pilots take the reins.



What exactly is holding things up? Not "raise the bar" crap...but what does the union want that the company is not willing to give. Is it something outrageous like back pay or back profit sharing you agreed was not important in the last contract? I mean what are the numbers you feel are fair? What about quality of life etc?

 

[Publishers]

smoking

The rhetoric expressed here is about 180 degrees out as we used to say.

Your problem and the approach you are considering at this time will result in terrible damage to the company and it's future.

It will also result in a tremendous opportunity for someone else. Continental will not be held hostage for long.

The individual who pointed to UAL and Comair as examples of how effective slowdowns and strikes are is not looking too close at what happened then. UAL lost all their business traffic which cost most of the employees their stock ownership in the long run and Comair lost flying to the other companies even though they were wholly owned.

This is one reason that they spun off Coex.