Welcome to Flightinfo.com
- Register now and join the discussion
- Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
- Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
- Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
- Share the passion for aviation
- Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun
FedEx
- Thread starter waitinginline
- Start date
- Watchers 13
Welcome to Flightinfo.com
- Register now and join the discussion
- Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
- Invite your friends
- Share the passion of aviation
- Friendliest aviation community on the web
Falconjet
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2002
- Posts
- 1,586
Change of Subject?
USNFDX: Yes the company runs lean and that is a good thing. As I thought about it more, I can't begrudge those who choose to work overtime, to each his own. I would prefer the guys who do so just keep it to themselves instead of bragging about how they suck up the open time or carryover.
I personally haven't done any VLT or DRF despite numerous calls, so I have at least walked the walk to go with my talk. I personally like the freedom to drop stuff and try to make it up later, so I have fed the machine by putting some of my work into open time for the others to take.
Admittedly my perspective is skewed from looking up from the bottom, and I would benefit perhaps the most from some new blood on the property, so that is probably why I said what I did.
I didn't mean to sound like a whiner, nor did I mean to insinuate that I am not thrilled to death to be here and be employed. That was perhaps too long a stretch for you to make from my posts. I too am thankful for my job, and am very sypathetic to those out there on furlough, and certainly agree that the "job security" is better this way by running lean.
Another way to keep the company lean is to not pay guys to sit around even more days than necessary by putting carryover lines in seats where the guys are already so under-utilized that they are close to lapsing in currency or so rusty they have to warn you before you go flying. And if you are lucky enough to be in that seat, just make it your little secret and buy me an extra beer or two at the layover!
I hope that I didn't offend anybody, just trying to put another perspective out there.
FJ
USNFDX: Yes the company runs lean and that is a good thing. As I thought about it more, I can't begrudge those who choose to work overtime, to each his own. I would prefer the guys who do so just keep it to themselves instead of bragging about how they suck up the open time or carryover.
I personally haven't done any VLT or DRF despite numerous calls, so I have at least walked the walk to go with my talk. I personally like the freedom to drop stuff and try to make it up later, so I have fed the machine by putting some of my work into open time for the others to take.
Admittedly my perspective is skewed from looking up from the bottom, and I would benefit perhaps the most from some new blood on the property, so that is probably why I said what I did.
I didn't mean to sound like a whiner, nor did I mean to insinuate that I am not thrilled to death to be here and be employed. That was perhaps too long a stretch for you to make from my posts. I too am thankful for my job, and am very sypathetic to those out there on furlough, and certainly agree that the "job security" is better this way by running lean.
Another way to keep the company lean is to not pay guys to sit around even more days than necessary by putting carryover lines in seats where the guys are already so under-utilized that they are close to lapsing in currency or so rusty they have to warn you before you go flying. And if you are lucky enough to be in that seat, just make it your little secret and buy me an extra beer or two at the layover!
I hope that I didn't offend anybody, just trying to put another perspective out there.
FJ
moneyshooter
Active member
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2003
- Posts
- 26
Carryover
I would agree with the lean argument if you looked at these schedules and saw that people were "working extra" during the peak months. But I would guess that when you look at months throughout the year you will see that they work extra every month.
Now I certainly appreciate that they cen pick up a trip now and again. Get momma that new car for christmas, pay for their upcoming vacation, etc. But when a guy is "working extra" every month there is a element of greed involved.
I am all for being able to pickup extra trips. But certainly it does get abused at the expense of other people. I just can't buy that an AB/MD11 captain needs to clear 400k, because he can't live of of $250k while the seniority list stagnates. Bidding carryover every month and padding his pocket. It's not just wide-body gus either. Flew with a guy this wek who does it every month - FO in the boeing. Made over 200k last year. Good for him - but to say this does not affect to work force is not true.
All for seniority, but I think we also need to guard the issues that keep people moving up the ladder. Anything that keeps senior guys senior and junior guys junior should be looked at. Some things we can not control - new planes, replacing the DC-10, etc. But when we continue to allow this stuff to go unchecked in the end we are only hurting ourselves.
Again - I'm sure it all a matter of prosespective. If you are senior and loving those extra trips...why change.
Just one opinion of many.
I would agree with the lean argument if you looked at these schedules and saw that people were "working extra" during the peak months. But I would guess that when you look at months throughout the year you will see that they work extra every month.
Now I certainly appreciate that they cen pick up a trip now and again. Get momma that new car for christmas, pay for their upcoming vacation, etc. But when a guy is "working extra" every month there is a element of greed involved.
I am all for being able to pickup extra trips. But certainly it does get abused at the expense of other people. I just can't buy that an AB/MD11 captain needs to clear 400k, because he can't live of of $250k while the seniority list stagnates. Bidding carryover every month and padding his pocket. It's not just wide-body gus either. Flew with a guy this wek who does it every month - FO in the boeing. Made over 200k last year. Good for him - but to say this does not affect to work force is not true.
All for seniority, but I think we also need to guard the issues that keep people moving up the ladder. Anything that keeps senior guys senior and junior guys junior should be looked at. Some things we can not control - new planes, replacing the DC-10, etc. But when we continue to allow this stuff to go unchecked in the end we are only hurting ourselves.
Again - I'm sure it all a matter of prosespective. If you are senior and loving those extra trips...why change.
Just one opinion of many.
FedExpert
Active member
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2003
- Posts
- 38
Thanks a lot spur for being so generous to allow poolies to have a job. I must have hit close to home. Although I did mean my ex-AF comment generically, I do hear plenty of bragging in the aircraft and AOC about how guys are working carryover and picking up extra trips. Senior guys don't care what is happening on the bottom and junior guys are cutting our own throats...although it is good for keeping people unhappy and this thread going.
PastV1
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2003
- Posts
- 106
This thread is embarassing. Here we are (FDX types) complaing about what somebody else does that is compleatly legal and within the bounds of the contract and the way things have always been done here becuase it doesn't sit well with someone else's seat progression. And it's somebody's fault that picked up and extra trip that some one else is still in the pool and not on the property yet.
Contrast that with the SWA board where people are happy for the chance to fly a day or two extra a month and the poolies can't wait to get on and if they need it they too can pick up an extra trip a month.
It's time we quit blaming each other and look towards the future contract. With attitudes like this I'm concerned when it comes time to dance with the company...
Past....
Contrast that with the SWA board where people are happy for the chance to fly a day or two extra a month and the poolies can't wait to get on and if they need it they too can pick up an extra trip a month.
It's time we quit blaming each other and look towards the future contract. With attitudes like this I'm concerned when it comes time to dance with the company...
Past....
AlbieF15
F15 Ret/FDX/InterviewPrep
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 1,764
Past V1 is right...
All the more reason to leave the negative/contentious issues in a letter to your block rep and/or the various email chains (jetflyer, etc) that discuss the issues.
Issue at hand is hiring. Hang on poolies...looks like winter (maybe) spring (maybe) or (hate to say worst case but) summer.
FedExpert...I don't think anyone on a 727 seat is hurting you right now. For whatever reason, the bean counters have just decided to run us leaner than in the past. Don't think that's anyone wearing epaulets fault... I doubt anyone is working more vlt/dft than they have historically in the past. As mentioned, I ain't one of those guys, but I can't scoff (yet) the guys who do.
When negotiations start, self help is allowed, and the union calls for "no extra work", then we can see what transpires. Until then, the company wins when pilots snipe at pilots. May I propose 2 suggestions for the purple clan:
First...if you are doing carryover/draft/volunteer, etc, have the sense not to flaunt it in front of a guy who's gone nowhere on the last 3 bids despite bidding 100% in every seat. You aren't making his life any more pleasant, and you aren't doing much to build "unity" in 2004.
Second...don't get bitter at the guys who do want to work a bit extra. Who decides how much is "too much"? I dabble in real estate and a side business...does that mean I should cut back in those areas as a 38 year old with 3 kids only needs X dollars? How much should I make? Who gets to decide? Once you get your MD11 or whatever you may appreciate the ability to work a bit extra here or there. As a guy 200 from the bottom, I get frustrated too...but I can't in good conscience tell someone not to work hard if they want the money...seems un-American somehow.
Next...read your ALPA-MEC letters. Goal is a contract where you can max your pension as a widebody capt without extra work. Seems like if we stick together that will truely be a win/win for both junior and senior pilots. I'll admit I've whinned too, but we either hang together or hang separately.
Finally...Fedexpert...I've seen some cheap crewmembers at FDX...civilians, former AF, former Navy. I've also met some of the neatest people anywhere...with the same type backgrounds. We've got some characters, and we've got some super guys. It will make it easier on all of us if you try not to categorize any of us too quickly.
Albie
(Union guy, Ex AF, ex fighter, ex-FAC, ex CFII, ex ROTC, ex-whatever else...)
All the more reason to leave the negative/contentious issues in a letter to your block rep and/or the various email chains (jetflyer, etc) that discuss the issues.
Issue at hand is hiring. Hang on poolies...looks like winter (maybe) spring (maybe) or (hate to say worst case but) summer.
FedExpert...I don't think anyone on a 727 seat is hurting you right now. For whatever reason, the bean counters have just decided to run us leaner than in the past. Don't think that's anyone wearing epaulets fault... I doubt anyone is working more vlt/dft than they have historically in the past. As mentioned, I ain't one of those guys, but I can't scoff (yet) the guys who do.
When negotiations start, self help is allowed, and the union calls for "no extra work", then we can see what transpires. Until then, the company wins when pilots snipe at pilots. May I propose 2 suggestions for the purple clan:
First...if you are doing carryover/draft/volunteer, etc, have the sense not to flaunt it in front of a guy who's gone nowhere on the last 3 bids despite bidding 100% in every seat. You aren't making his life any more pleasant, and you aren't doing much to build "unity" in 2004.
Second...don't get bitter at the guys who do want to work a bit extra. Who decides how much is "too much"? I dabble in real estate and a side business...does that mean I should cut back in those areas as a 38 year old with 3 kids only needs X dollars? How much should I make? Who gets to decide? Once you get your MD11 or whatever you may appreciate the ability to work a bit extra here or there. As a guy 200 from the bottom, I get frustrated too...but I can't in good conscience tell someone not to work hard if they want the money...seems un-American somehow.
Next...read your ALPA-MEC letters. Goal is a contract where you can max your pension as a widebody capt without extra work. Seems like if we stick together that will truely be a win/win for both junior and senior pilots. I'll admit I've whinned too, but we either hang together or hang separately.
Finally...Fedexpert...I've seen some cheap crewmembers at FDX...civilians, former AF, former Navy. I've also met some of the neatest people anywhere...with the same type backgrounds. We've got some characters, and we've got some super guys. It will make it easier on all of us if you try not to categorize any of us too quickly.
Albie
(Union guy, Ex AF, ex fighter, ex-FAC, ex CFII, ex ROTC, ex-whatever else...)
dixieflyer
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2002
- Posts
- 237
AlbieF15,
Well put. I could not agree more. As a bottom feeder myself, with only 70 people below me, I too would LOVE to see more seat bids along with getting the poolies on the property. However my desire to upgrade doesn't frustrate me with the folks who whore themselves for draft/vol/ carry over. If a man wants to work overtime to max is his pay, who am I to tell him not to. Besides, as long as he is picking up open time trips, scheduling wont be calling me to fly it while Im on reserve. I get paid the same sitting reserve, regardless if I fly or not. Your correct Albie it would be un-American to put a ceiling on how much a man can work or make.
Keep in mind folks, the company as whole is triming the fat. Im not sure of the exact numbers but FDX offered early retirments to several thousand employees. I dont think they can offer early retirement to thousands then say "oh by the way we need to hire another 250 pilots."
Poolies, try to keep the faith. This is a great company to work for and the crews you will be working with are great as well. It will be worth the wait. Hopefully after the first of the year you will be able to carry a thermos too.
Long Live the Republic of Dixe
Well put. I could not agree more. As a bottom feeder myself, with only 70 people below me, I too would LOVE to see more seat bids along with getting the poolies on the property. However my desire to upgrade doesn't frustrate me with the folks who whore themselves for draft/vol/ carry over. If a man wants to work overtime to max is his pay, who am I to tell him not to. Besides, as long as he is picking up open time trips, scheduling wont be calling me to fly it while Im on reserve. I get paid the same sitting reserve, regardless if I fly or not. Your correct Albie it would be un-American to put a ceiling on how much a man can work or make.
Keep in mind folks, the company as whole is triming the fat. Im not sure of the exact numbers but FDX offered early retirments to several thousand employees. I dont think they can offer early retirement to thousands then say "oh by the way we need to hire another 250 pilots."
Poolies, try to keep the faith. This is a great company to work for and the crews you will be working with are great as well. It will be worth the wait. Hopefully after the first of the year you will be able to carry a thermos too.
Long Live the Republic of Dixe
Falconjet
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2002
- Posts
- 1,586
A possiblity
I don't think anybody knows the answer to that question, unles they are in personnel. It is certainly a possibility that they would delay hiring, but since the contract becomes amendable on May 31 2004, and negotiations could take a couple of years (hopefully not), most folks don't think that the company could wait that long to start hiring again. That is just another theory though. You need a crystal ball to know when hiring might start up again. We're hoping that realizing how short we are in certain seats and the fact that the negotioations will take some time, the company will not make that an issue (in the negotiations) and hire when they feel they need to based on personnel, not politics. We'll see.
I don't think anybody knows the answer to that question, unles they are in personnel. It is certainly a possibility that they would delay hiring, but since the contract becomes amendable on May 31 2004, and negotiations could take a couple of years (hopefully not), most folks don't think that the company could wait that long to start hiring again. That is just another theory though. You need a crystal ball to know when hiring might start up again. We're hoping that realizing how short we are in certain seats and the fact that the negotioations will take some time, the company will not make that an issue (in the negotiations) and hire when they feel they need to based on personnel, not politics. We'll see.
TonyC
Frederick's Happy Face
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2002
- Posts
- 3,050
dixieflyer
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2002
- Posts
- 237
Here some more third hand info. Take it for what its worth. I just flew a trip with a captain who had JL on his jumpseat recently. According to him FDX will have about 45 guys returning from active duty in Jan. Its anyone's guess what if any impact that may have on when/if we spool up the hiring. Does anyone know how many of our active guys are SOs?
Share this page
Latest resources
-
-
-
-
-
AC 90-89C - Amateur-Built Aircraft and Ultralight Flight Testing HandbookAmateur-Built Aircraft and Ultralight Flight Testing Handbook
- Neal
- Updated:
