FedEx Training Letter Out!

[Concierj]

Pilot A's training isn't delayed by B's activation into the new domicile, its being pushed back by pilots senior to him that have come in on the new posting (MOAB). That is what is actually delaying the training, not the fact that B has already trained and activated.

It's actually being delayed by the company. Senior pilots awarded M11F on the MOAB are being trained later than pilot A. Looking at the 11 training letter, there are no "new" M11F being trained during the months of June, July, August and beginning of Sept. (1 LOA is being trained) Just lateral ANC or LAX moves to MEM over those months. (About 16 laterals through the end of October) I agree HH. About 20 -25 pilots are affected.

 

[MalteseX]

This scenario applies to about 30-40 pilots. Pilot A is senior to B.

Bid 1:
Pilot A awarded MEM MD-11 FO
Pilot B awarded ANC MD-11 FO

Pilot B begins training for ANC while Pilot A waits for a later training date.

Bid 2 (MOAB):
Pilot B awarded MEM MD-11 FO

Pilot A’s training pushed back. (Over 1 year now from Bid 1 award)

Pilot B, now a qualified MD-11 FO is activated to MEM prior to pilot A’s training completion.

IE Guy bids ANC first, then MEM, qualifies in the seat and beats you there (MEM) when you were awarded MEM from the previous bid.

Is pilot A entitled to Passover pay? From the contract it doesn’t appear so. This scenario is not a morale booster. Sorry for the semantics.

From the way the contract is worded, I think you are correct. Because pilot B is not delaying training of pilot A in his "domicile transfer" to MEM, pilot A will not be getting passover.

 

[MalteseX]

I am also effected by the bid. I was supposed to train MD-11/FO (Memphis) in Jun, but after the MOAB, was moved back to October. I am curious about passover pay as well.

It seems that new hire pilots are being trained in place of those of us that haven't yet trained on bid 05-03. While we are in fact going to different domiciles, it doesn't seem to be the intent of the contract to push back our training and train new hire pilots without paying passover pay. If more senior pilots were allowed to train ahead of us, I think that is just tough luck. But this isn't the case. I don't know if we will be offered passover pay or not (my guess is NOT). I

Anyway, I am going to write the union an email, and hopefully someone is there to answer (they are probably on strike now). I think if we can't get the answer we are looking for, we could file a grievance. I don't care when I train, but I am looking to be paid for the training delay. How many are effected by this anyway?

This situation is where the contract falls short. The "intent" of passover pay is to pay guys that are affected by junior guys training in the same equipment. However, the "wording" of the contract has a gaping loophole for (in this case) guys who bid MEM.

I think that the "writers" of the contract didn't envision this scenario. If they did, then it's pretty bad, because using the wording, you could delay a group of guys indefinitely (ie by training everyone for ANC then "move" them to MEM)--and effectively be able to push the MEM guys from 0503 back forever. Not saying or even thinking that will happen, but taking the contract wording to the extreme, it's a gaping loophole that needs to be addressed.

 

[MalteseX]

It's actually being delayed by the company. Senior pilots awarded M11F on the MOAB are being trained later than pilot A. Looking at the 11 training letter, there are no "new" M11F being trained during the months of June, July, August and beginning of Sept. (1 LOA is being trained) Just lateral ANC or LAX moves to MEM over those months. (About 16 laterals through the end of October) I agree HH. About 20 -25 pilots are affected.

That is true from the training letter.

But what I think has guys "beefed" is that new hires are being trained during this time (Jun, Jul, Aug, Sept to ANC), and that is what they think is delaying their training. (ie new hires vs. senior guys) .

 

[Falconjet]

Well I'm missing something I guess. I don't see the issue. Looking at the training letter they are training folks in seniority order for the M11 FO seat in the order of the bids. 0503 folks are going first in seniority order, and then the 0602 folks in seniority order.

The contract is pretty specific about same domicile. It is not surprising that they would fill the ANC spots first, they need those more.

If the pay means more than the domicile than you should have bid ANC. If not, then hang in there and wait for a training slot to open up in Mem.

You can also try to trade to move up your training date, as at least you will get paid once you activate, even though it won't trigger passover pay.

I'm sympathetic, but the company is just following the CBA, and trying to man the domiciles in the most efficient manner they can.

What sucks is that once you bid for the new seat you have no control over when you go to training. I wouldn't be surprised if the training dates get shuffled again before the end of the training cycle, that is the way it goes.

FJ

 

[Falconjet]

That is true from the training letter.

But what I think has guys "beefed" is that new hires are being trained during this time (Jun, Jul, Aug, Sept to ANC), and that is what they think is delaying their training. (ie new hires vs. senior guys) .

I can see that, but that it is in accordance with the CBA, so I don't see what there is to grieve. The company can fill the domiciles in the order they choose independent of seniority.

Maybe something for us to look at in the next contract, bidding for training slots. That would put all of this to bed.

FJ

 

[Sluggo_63]

This situation is where the contract falls short. The "intent" of passover pay is to pay guys that are affected by junior guys training in the same equipment. However, the "wording" of the contract has a gaping loophole for (in this case) guys who bid MEM.

I think that the "writers" of the contract didn't envision this scenario. If they did, then it's pretty bad, because using the wording, you could delay a group of guys indefinitely (ie by training everyone for ANC then "move" them to MEM)--and effectively be able to push the MEM guys from 0503 back forever. Not saying or even thinking that will happen, but taking the contract wording to the extreme, it's a gaping loophole that needs to be addressed.

I think you will get it. In fact MP, ST and JL all seemed to be in agreement that you will get passover pay once the junior guy activates (don't kill me on this if it doesn't happen). I was looking at this part of the contract:

5. New Hire Crew Positions

a. During his initial new hire training, each pilot shall be presented with
appropriate information regarding crew position vacancies available for bid. A
new hire pilot’s initial crew position shall be determined by his standing bid
and seniority.
b. If the Company hires fewer pilots than the number of unfilled vacancies
available to be filled by new hires, the Company may designate the crew
positions to be made available for bidding by only the affected new hire pilots
in accordance with Section 24.E.5.a. (above).
c. If the Company subsequently hires additional pilots to fill new hire crew positions remaining unfilled from a posting, the remaining unfilled crew positions shall first be available for award to the pilots previously hired to fill positions from that posting, based upon their seniority and initial standing bid; provided, however, that this paragraph shall not permit a new hire pilot to change his initial crew status.
d. If, through the application of Section 24.E.5.c. (above), a junior pilot is
activated into a crew position for which a senior pilot(s) did not have the opportunity to bid, the eligible senior pilot(s) shall be paid passover pay in the same manner described in Section 24.D.2.b., D.2.c., and D.2.d.​

I think that if you're waiting for training, and the company puts a newhire in training before you, you will get POP when the new guy (gal) activates in that seat.​

FWIW,
Sluggo​

 

[Concierj]

What sucks is that once you bid for the new seat you have no control over when you go to training. I wouldn't be surprised if the training dates get shuffled again before the end of the training cycle, that is the way it goes.

Yup, that's it in a nutshell. Had I known it would have taken this long, I would have bid something else. Who knows, I probably will be delayed again. That is just the way it goes. There are much, much worse problems to have. Have yourselves a nice day.
The "hoping they place a newhire into MEM MD11F" Jugmeister-

 

[capt_zman]

All they had to do was let us know, before the bid closed, that we were going to be delayed. Some would have bid off to ANC, the 727 or the Airbus, others would have stayed in the 11 MEM knowing full well what the company's training objectives are.

Bidding for training dates (just like vacation) would be the best way to deal with this.

And to think I was going to try and get one up on the company by receiving passover pay for bidding the airbus on the moab, (all while staying 38% in the engineer seat). Silly me for being honest.

 

[1st Overnite]

Bidding for training dates (just like vacation) would be the best way to deal with this

You would think the company would want this as well. Senior pilots happy because they can control when they go to training. Company would like this because that would get rid of passover pay.

In any case, where are the new hires going? Is it just MD11 FO or will it be the Airbus and Boeing FO as well?