FedEx Guys: wear your hat next week!!

[stonewall]

Someday I hope to be as wise as AlbieF15, and I'm not saying that facetiously! Excellent words, bro. I knew someday, somewhere, someone would prove to me that not all Eagle drivers are idiots....

 

[SDF2BUF2MCO]

When I explained what I ACTUALLY said and tried to put my situation in the proper context (ie....I was actually waaaay behind on ANG obligations due to 2.5 months in training, etc) he seemed to understand...BUT...in my mind the water in the well was already poisoned with bad perceptions. I'm not sure this ACP will ever see me now as anything but a guy trying to weasel out of work, even if that is 100% NOT the case.

So...my advice to everyone is keep your mouth shut. Unity is one thing, but even your "bro" in the hat to your left or behind you can cause you a lot of damage. Stick to the party line, and don't get too personal. Somebody (a non-member or someone with a twisted personal agenda) might take a post you placed on a "secure" site and burn a copy for someone in management.

Different scenario (management) but same outcome for me. Brings back bad memories. Oh well, it got me a one way ticket to Orlando. Great post Albie.

 

[AlbieF15]

...most Eagle drivers are not idiots. However, as an interview coach, I will say fighter pilots in general (and Eagle guys in particular) can become extremely myopic at times and tend to be very INTENSE and TIGHT when recounting tales of flying adventures. One of my main jobs, especially getting guys prepped for Jetblue and SWA, is "uncoiling" a bit of that intensity and target fixation and getting them to back up to see a bigger picture. I know your post was in jest, but many of the same traits show up in my HARM shooting CJ guys as well as their CG brethren.

...was hoping to be code 1 in time or mid-July det to Montana to have a few Eagle verses Viper battles both over the Hayes MOA and in the bar (that is, between fishing the big MO and visiting the Gates of the Rockies). Alas...a few too many squares to punch and some more rehab on the back required before I get to do that I'm afraid. Guess I'll get up there as an airline pilot again before I get the chance to do it as an Eagle driver...

 

[klhoard]

.. . <snip>. . .my name isn't a secret here and my picture is even on the internet. . . .<snip>. . ..

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We all understand, Albie, you were young and needed the money. . .
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[FlyBoeingJets]

Albie,

I know you didn't say this but--

Sounds like FedEx is kinda cranky about military leave. I'm starting to understand why my FedEx buds say they would like to retire and have the ACP say, "Who was that guy, did he work for us?" FedEx guys end up quiting the reserve more often than pax dudes. It may be pay differential, but I think it has to do with flexibility and quality of life.

From the comments I've read on flightinfo, FedEx sounds very old school and military like. One disagreement or infraction and someone wants to ruin your career or chance for advancement.

 

[stonewall]

So far, FDX has been very liberal with the mil leave gig. I'm currently on 31 day orders for a Safety Board and the 727 S/O ACP was very cool about it. Of course, I did the courtesy of calling him and talking to him about and didn't just spring it on 'em and say "you can't stop me."

I don't think it's the pay or anything as to why guys quit the Guard/Reserve. It's just **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** hard (sts). I knew my first year would be tough, but it's been ridiculous. I'm working all the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** time just to keep my Guard quals and fly enough at FDX to pay the freakin' bills. I've had 4 mos so far with only 3-4 days off. I know some will say "suck it up, you made the choice," and it is a choice. But it's not so simple as that.

I enjoy FDX, and I know it will get better. It will give me a nice life down the road. But military flying is in my blood and it's been my life for 10 years. It's just not easy to give it up, regardless how much you're dragging ass sometimes. Maybe down the road, but I just can't see NOT flying F-16s if I have the opportunity, regardless of how my schedule suffers. And I'm grateful FedEx hasn't hassled me about my Mil leave.

 

[AlbieF15]

FBJ,

Read Huck's post. I agree. I love my job. I love my company. I generally very much appreciate everyone there and have a good working relationship with all my supervisors. That is why when someone compromised or tainted that relationship I was so angry.
I won't speak out of turn, but MY experience with management (on day to day stuff--not like these contract talks) has never been anything but very positive. My point is I don't think I have had an adversarial relationship at all with anyone there. I'm on a medical leave now, and everyone has been outstanding. The Union/MGT negotiations have been more or less transparent from my viewpoint. And while I don't understand why anyone would dork up a perfectly good airline job by wanting to be a CP and come to work EVERY day, it seems like our CP and ACPs have been better than most out there. My point on my post wasn't that MGT would screw you...it was that your "buddy" you chatted with might. So...don't say anything in front of another pilot (whom you don't really now) you wouldn't say in front of a manager or a labor relations lawyer. Your "buddy" might, either by malice or misunderstanding, repeat your words and/or take them completely of context (or yes...even grossly exaggerate).

Also...for 2 years...all I ever heard about mil leave was "thank you for your service...." I think overall FDX has been MUCH better than industry average on how we are treated when we have to take military leave.

However, I do think in the last 18 months there has been more pressure on folks about mil leave, and its not just at my company. Legal or not, it has been happening. Guys at JB will tell you they get pressure. I have a bro that is a SWA new hire that is catching flack too. I think 18-24 months ago the management at various airlines started to complain a bit more that they have historically. Part of this is the fact the TOTAL FORCE guys ARE busy right now. Part of this is the ever increasing pressure across the industry to cut costs and to increase employee productivity. My SWA buddy's CP always throws up "profit sharing" as a point. Personally, I think as much money as the airlines get from the Feds (loan guarantees, mail contracts, CRAF perks, etc) that they are missing the forest for the trees. A part time reservist provides plenty of capability for the gov'mint at a fraction of the active duty guy's cost. Additionally, I think worrying about "profit sharing" is a bit relative. Keeping my daughters from having to speak Arabic and wear Burkas to school or preventing another 9/11 (which would crush the industry more than losing a few guys on mil leave!) is to me a lot more important in the big picture. However, when chief pilots have their meetings they are tracking missed trips, productivity, etc etc. They aren't paid to be your buddy, they are paid to "make their numbers..." There are also some folks who no matter how much you argue will say that flying an AT-38 or an F-15 training mission instead of pulling an R day is a "scam". I disagree, but I can't change everyone's perceptions. Some folks think its a scam, others are perhaps envious or jealous, and some folks just have a different idea altogether. However, I can't argue with everyone, so I just fly my sorties and do my job. If I'd taken the advice we give our fledgling Eagle drivers at Tyndall "Never pass up the opportunity to shut your hole....", I never would have even had the previously mentioned incident. I'm just passing that on to remind everyone to think and count to ten before speaking. I've heard a lot of guys talk in "wink wink" tones about sick leave on the flight deck. (My personal favorite euphamism I heard over the 3.5 years was "telecommuting") I would NEVER repeat those comments, but obviously there are those pilots who would. How much fun would it be to post something like that on PPRUNE or perhaps some "thinking out loud" ideas about work actions, only to find yourself on the carpet in front of someone later?

 

[FedEx1]

Sorry to hear that some guys are getting some "'tude" when going on military leave.

However, a few bad apples kind of spoiled it for all of us. SO many guys have shown up Day 1, well aware they weren't really getting out- just there to get their seniority number, then go back to the military stuff.

Hey, anyone who is able to skip the time in the back of the Boeing has my respect- but from the MGT point of view, it has cost them a lot of time and money, and left us short crews. When the bean counters decide to loosen the purse strings and allow a few more warm bodies on the property, they don't take into account anyone not actually being there! And Flight Ops isn't able to hire "extra" to make up for it.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Thanks Albie. I stand corrected. Rumors are always flying.

I've heard the story about guys taking normal leave before terminal leave is approved just to start Day 1 at FedEx. Then they say, "sorry I have to go back for awhile". That is probably just urban legend. SWA requires military folks to arrive on day one with a DD 214. Can't get that until you are actually on terminal leave and are released from duty.


I'm not surprised the extended military leave is a problem. It used to be very uncommon and now it is the norm for reservists. Hopefully that will change in a year when all the activations are used up. The 2 years out of 5 will give us a break. Unfortunately, employers will have a memory of the last 4 years and it will affect their attitude towards military folks for a long time.

 

[AlbieF15]

...well...

A bro of mine had his retirement extended a few months due to some paperwork SNAFUs. Company let him go to his original training date, then released him for the 6 weeks or so he needed to finish his active duty obligations (basically, he was 6 weeks short of leave to make his original class date work, and AF higher HQ disapproved a retirement date that up to that point had been considered "automatic" by base personnel folks). We were not as tight on bodies at the time, and he was 100% up front with them and willing to slide class dates. They CHOSE to accomadate him, which I though was very generous.

The other incident did happen, although there was some confusion and post 9/11 stop loss issues in play. How up front was that person? Well...I think he must have been fairly straight up as the ACPs have hired several folks he recommended. I will reserve comment as I don't have all the facts.

 

[stonewall]

My ACP straight up told me what burns their a**es is when guys take voluntary 3-4 month activations during their first year on the panel. he said they have zero problem with guys getting activated and being sent overseas or guys getting their monthly sorties in. They just get irritated when a guy goes out and finds a 6 month gig in the CAOC at McDill to escape the first year pay. That's a personal decision, but I do understand MGT's point of view on that issue.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

No doubt there are Reserve and Guard guys that game the system to stay off the panel, skipp first year pay, or at a regional, come back when they can hold the left seat.

I had a mainline pilot admit he did this the other day. I've heard it plenty of times in the crewroom over the years.

It is not that they are guard/reserve guys, it is just there are a few bad apples in every bushel...

Show up on the 23rd if you work for Fred.

BTW, I took that FedEx jumpseater the other day.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

I have no firm opinion on this subject except to say that FedEx is really helping some folks with military ties. I hope the individuals feel as blessed as they obviously are.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

They just get irritated when a guy goes out and finds a 6 month gig in the CAOC at McDill to escape the first year pay.

The companies who don't pay squat the first year shouldn't complain when people do stuff like this. If the first year pay at a company weren't so lousy, they wouldn't have so many guys do the first year activation thing. Pay 'em well from day one, and you've got loyalty from day one. Pay 'em $hit and then get pissed when they activate? Gimme a break.

 

[DaveGriffin]

The companies who don't pay squat the first year shouldn't complain when people do stuff like this. If the first year pay at a company weren't so lousy, they wouldn't have so many guys do the first year activation thing. Pay 'em well from day one, and you've got loyalty from day one. Pay 'em $hit and then get pissed when they activate? Gimme a break.

It's simple, if you don’t like the first year pay then don’t take the job. Accepting employment with the intention of cheating your employer because you don’t like the starting salary sets a pattern of behavior for the rest of your career.

 

[stonewall]

FBJ, I didn't post that first paragraph you credited to me.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

sorry, I had a horrible cut and paste accident.

Not trying to attribute anything to anyone. Just my personal opinion.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The companies who don't pay squat the first year shouldn't complain when people do stuff like this. If the first year pay at a company weren't so lousy, they wouldn't have so many guys do the first year activation thing. Pay 'em well from day one, and you've got loyalty from day one. Pay 'em $hit and then get pissed when they activate? Gimme a break.

Meanwhile the civilians will get junior maned, extended etc....

Nice way to treat fellow pilots. Would a guard guy who games the system at his airlines stick it to his squardron buddies....?

Show up on the 23rd and support your MEC and yourselfs.....

 

[AlbieF15]

Ok, I'll bite on this one...sort of...

Rez, my first year I averaged 2-3 days off per month, period. I was working hard to "serve two masters..", that is the ANG and FedEx. I never left for months, however, and was around the AOC regularly. Holding 2 jobs down pretty much means you just pi$$ everyone off. Your airline boss is mad you are gone, and your ANG boss wants to know why you are so tired and aren't more fired up about (fill in the blank) and why can't you be here for that voluntary (but not mandatory) function next week? You learn you pretty much just can't keep everyone happy...

Another year 1 SO I know (and a board regular) had to leave to do a command post job in Al whatever doing the war effort. True...he didn't have to fly a crappy line or sit reserve. However, he WAS in harms way, planning OIF, away from his family for 3+ months serving his country.

Was he screwing me? Hardly. I think he was helping ALL of us...military, civilian, airline pilot or American in another vocation. In the big picture, I would gladly suck up a bad deal at home rather than go back to combat or deploy a long way from my family. I think he was helping by doing a dirty job that had to be done, and one that I am glad I didn't have to do. On the small scale, we don't have JA at FedEx. Really...he was helping the MEM bros who want to fly extra (sometimes at 1.5 times pay rate) by not being there. Did that hurt the company...well...maybe...but as far as hurting the "bros" and fellow pilots I seriously doubt it. I don't think anyone around Elvis land is saying "darn it Guard guy, you aren't pulling your weight..." but instead "oh goodie, more volunteer and draft for ME!". FedEx always underhired and stayed lean, so they planned on paying some trips at time and half. What might be a sore spot it the AMOUNT of trips they have to do that for, if it turns out the bean counters didn't factor in enough guys being gone. Trust me...we don't cancel flights for lack of crews very much (if ever)...there is always a opportunistic guy or gal ready to make the extra coin.

Again...just one man's opinion...and I may be wrong...

 

[stonewall]

Meanwhile the civilians will get junior maned, extended etc....

Nice way to treat fellow pilots. Would a guard guy who games the system at his airlines stick it to his squardron buddies....?

Show up on the 23rd and support your MEC and yourselfs.....

He absolutely would, and I've seen it happen already at my unit. Every Guard bum who games the system and abuses the mil leave policy just makes it harder (sts) for the rest of us who do play by the rules.

I'm not a sanctimonious a**, although I'm about to sound like one. You can't pick and choose where you "do the right thing." I ain't perfect, I know, but I do try. It does have to really give our civilian bros the f***** beak when they see guys abusing the policy.

Now I'm sure Hugh is going to rip me for being a pompous a**.....

 

[stonewall]

To be clear, the overwhelming majority of the Guard/Reserve guys I know at FDX and other carriers do NOT work one job against the other. Like Albie said, it's more like working both jobs full time. My schedule these past 7 mos has blown. It's just the 1%ers that p*** everyone off.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

Now I'm sure Hugh is going to rip me for being a pompous a**.....

Not at all. My simple point is that there would be less "gamers" of the system if 1st year pay weren't so lean. I'm not advocating it, but when a guy can get O-4 pay for a year versus 2-3k month while trying to support a wife, an ex and 2.5 kids, I can see how the "gaming" comes into effect and it's hard to fault the guy when he's playing within the rules.

 

[SWPA Pilot]

I have complete respect for anyone doing any job in the military. But there were at least 5 guys in my newhire class playing the mil leave game and every time I tried to move an R-day, I kept getting insufficient reserves.

I'm not bitter about it, that is just what happened.

 

[Huck]

there is always a opportunistic guy or gal ready to make the extra coin.

And we appreciate it - remember that us GDI's are forbidden in the FOM from any outside flying for money. I used to pick up King Aire and Citation trips on my off days at my last two jobs - but I don't risk it here. So I NEEDED open time to make ends meet my first year.

Thanks to all you part time military guys out there though. Looks pretty thankless to me, most of the time....

 

[PurpleInMEM]

Contract Section 12.A.1.b

"Pilots shall not fly aircraft other than those operated by the Company for hire or remuneration unless authorized by the Vice President, Flight Operations, or his designee."

Huck:

You want an "outside flying letter" by your ACP. I did this my first month on the line and I continue to do contract work today. Better to get your side gig going now before we strike....oops I mean 'in case' we strike. Basically you put into the letter verbiage that you won't work for a company that competes with FDX Corporation and that you won't allow the outside work to impact availability or hours of service at FedEx. Lots of guys do it. Any questions call the ACP. If he has any questions refer him to the friendly Contract Enforcement folks at the office on Kirby Parkway.

My first year I was dropping R days to fly contract. Made substantially more money but still worked the same number of days every month. If you want to work extra days it's an easy way to do that too.

 

[USNFDX]

I have complete respect for anyone doing any job in the military. But there were at least 5 guys in my newhire class playing the mil leave game and every time I tried to move an R-day, I kept getting insufficient reserves.

I'm not bitter about it, that is just what happened.

Insufficient reserves has very little to do with guys on mil leave. More to do with the scheduling software that was implemented about 18 months ago. Acccording to one ACP, in "a perfect world" they would have exactly enough reserves to cover "forecasted" open trips. So in theory, you would never be able to move R days.

It is actualy easier to drop a trip, then move an R day.

 

[Huck]

Thanks PIM.


Actually I'm (thank God) to a point where I can make more money flying open time. But that doesn't help my "diversity"....

 

[FNG24]

For the brain trust here, I know the amount of guranteed hours is 74 a month right? How much more time could one pick up, realistically, say the standard 72 s/o...and any info on trips that pay extra etc....my friends there do the reserve thing, but they say it is a wash, since time off traveling back and forth and their drill pay is about the same as picking up extra trips.....they say they mostly do it for the pointy nose fix....thanks gents

 

[stonewall]

It is about a wash regarding pay (for an O-3). I'd rather fly Guard simply because it means I'm home. I try to work the Guard days around my FDX schedule, but it doesn't always work out that way.

 

[AlbieF15]

...another reason to do it is survival.

In 2004, we had 2 pilots killed flying fighters in the Reserve/ANG jobs. It is HARD WORK maintaining proficiency in multiple jets, and it takes a lot of personal committment. Again...not trying to get on a soapbox, but if you fly fighters you NEED those 6-10 sorties just to stay sharp. Experience carries you for a distance, but currency and proficiency (and recency of experience) are all important too.

Every part-time warriors # 1 job is to not end up on a plaque in the Greenway library.

Fly safe bros...