FedEx Disputed Pairings

[Purpled]

Hey,

The last disputed Capt. MEM11 pairing miraculously disappeared from open time a week in advance. I realize that AVA pays a lot of money, but if you're going to whore yourselves out then DONT DO IT ON DISPUTED PAIRINGS.

You're killing us. It is never OK to voluntarily fly a DP, questions?

 

[Los1]

I usually do not do this...but I have had it!!
Fred Ranalli, 59, "I do not want to retire, I should get another 5 years, but if your gonna make me, here ya go, working on my high 5...etc."
P&^ck
Los1

 

[Purpled]

Ya know the guy, huh?

 

[FoxHunter]

I usually do not do this...but I have had it!!
Fred Ranalli, 59, "I do not want to retire, I should get another 5 years, but if your gonna make me, here ya go, working on my high 5...etc."
P&^ck
Los1

Do you really expect Fred or any reasonable person to agree to a pay cut for possibly 30+ years? Just one of of the negatives in regard to ALPA and the age 60 rule.

 

[Uppercrust]

I usually do not do this...but I have had it!!
Fred Ranalli, 59, "I do not want to retire, I should get another 5 years, but if your gonna make me, here ya go, working on my high 5...etc."
P&^ck
Los1

I'm sure Fred is gonna see this tonight and think twice about his actions. Seriously, he can do what he wants.

 

[Purpled]

Do you really expect Fred or any reasonable person to agree to a pay cut for possibly 30+ years? Just one of of the negatives in regard to ALPA and the age 60 rule.

If you want to make it a money thing, then there is plenty of 'extra' to be had if you want it. Flying a disputed pairing is unacceptable and hurts us all in the long run.

And how long has this guy known when his 60th birthday is?
Suggestion: Go for your high-5 when you're young, so that when you're old it doesn't kill you.

Be careful about screwing guys over while senior, someday your retirement might be in their hands and theirs alone.

Cheers!

 

[FoxHunter]

If you want to make it a money thing, then there is plenty of 'extra' to be had if you want it. Flying a disputed pairing is unacceptable and hurts us all in the long run.

And how long has this guy known when his 60th birthday is?
Suggestion: Go for your high-5 when you're young, so that when you're old it doesn't kill you.

Be careful about screwing guys over while senior, someday your retirement might be in their hands and theirs alone.

Cheers!

Hey Dude!! I thought any extra flying is a no, no??

Some are not young when they are a new hire, let alone wide body Captain. Some have worked for 2, 3, 4, failed airlines. Some served their country 20-30 years. Fred is not very senior and was a F/O till a few ears ago.

Good thing the pilots nor ALPA will never have my or their retirement in their hands. Also ALPA has made it very clear that they do not represent retired pilots in any case. At least that is what ALPA told the retired pilots at UAL, DAL and others.

 

[Purpled]

It's all about personal choice. I've seen decent reasons to fly extra and other reasons.

It's all about personal choice. The older you are, the less advisable pursuing an airline job is.

It's all about personal choice. Remember, they knew when they were turning 60 long before they took this job.

It's all about personal choice. You have 'till you're 60[or a few more if you go to the back] to get your retirement in order. If it ain't working out, go get a job that allows you to retire better...or later.

Did I mention that it's all about personal choice? I wouldn't say I was 'young' when I got here, but I've got plenty of time to get my affairs in order(don't tell my wife) before I retire.

 

[BlitzBurgh]

I'm glad I'm not the only one getting tired of these tool bags picking up draft trips and especially flying disputed pairings. Looking at some of these guys schedules for the month is fatiguing just looking at them let alone thinking about actually working that much extra. But hey as long as they"get theirs" who cares about the rest of us. "I gotta get my high 5" crap is getting old. I gotta survive these trips for 25+ years. I hope these morons that have to do all these extra trips survive long enought after 60 to enjoy it. Two years is too long. Let's do everything we can to help the company because they're doing everything they can to help us.

 

[USNFDX]

Hey Dude!! I thought any extra flying is a no, no??

Some are not young when they are a new hire, let alone wide body Captain. Some have worked for 2, 3, 4, failed airlines. Some served their country 20-30 years. Fred is not very senior and was a F/O till a few ears ago.

Good thing the pilots nor ALPA will never have my or their retirement in their hands. Also ALPA has made it very clear that they do not represent retired pilots in any case. At least that is what ALPA told the retired pilots at UAL, DAL and others.

George,

I'm not sure why you came back. You always seem to be going in a different direction than the rest of us.

It was much easier to dislike you as nonmember. Maybe it would be best for you to quit again. Just do the dues checkoff thing, that way you wouldn't be accused of being a cheapskate.

 

[flya727]

OK , I am an outsider. What the hell is a high 5 and how illegal are these pairings (contract i would think)? Are these trips getting these guys the extra time needed to get extra $ for ret. ? Trying to read the code here!

Rick

 

[USNFDX]

OK , I am an outsider. What the hell is a high 5 and how illegal are these pairings (contract i would think)? Are these trips getting these guys the extra time needed to get extra $ for ret. ? Trying to read the code here!

Rick

Hi 5= A fund (Pension) is # of yrs of service X2% of the AVG of the higest 5 yrs of earnings. Max of 25 yrs, max of $260000. Example 22yrs = 44% x 240,000 = $105,600

Disputed pairing: A trip that is legal per CBA, but is disputed by the Union, because it is not in the spirit of the contract, and is onerous. Disputed pairings are left out of lines. They are placed in open time. They may be voluntarily picked up, or assigned to a reserve. The union has legaly asked that these pairings not be picked up.

 

[flya727]

I guess this pairings are in the "gray" area as far as legal and guys can fly them for the extra $'s and rigs to their benefit and detriment to all. If enough fly them, they become the "norm" and no problem (everyone else is doing it).

I suspect this is the base of it and only a select few seem to abuse system to open it up to other non partisipating or willing crewmembers that don't want to whore themselves out in this regard.

I came from a Non-Sked 121 Passenger (Planet Air Screams) that forced crews to accept illegal (beyond the scope of reality) flights across countries without visas, without GenDecs, without proper MEL's. without legal ATIS (not weather!), AND WITHOUT LEGAL FUEL REASERVES (RE-RELEASE AT SAVANA FROM ARUBA TO PHL (WITH MEL'S THAT ARE NOT IN THE BOOK!)

You get my point, I dealt with it in a finite enviroment, you are dealing with it in an xpansive one. Controlle it with the few who abuse it.

Rick

 

[Diesel]

Good for you guys calling the people out. Public embarassment will be the only way that people stop stealing from other pilots.

Foxhunter their past has nothing to do with the future. They should realize the greater good instead of being selfish pricks.

My favorite was the guy that said he was picking up disputed pairings so that when the union said not to they would really feel the pain when he stopped. Whatever..

 

[USNFDX]

F/O assigned to Disputed pairing md11 trip 90 on the 8/25. By the way his schedule is blocked.
After further research, he may be on Reserve, but appears be a carryover dude!

 

[ptarmigan]

Can't find the sig letter, but why is that trip disputed? Reset issue or? 28 hrs in Paris, 47 hrs in BOM, 37 in DEL, 25 in DXB, 21 in FRA, then another 69 in FRA before heading home. Generally 2 legs between each layover listed above, longest duty at 12.5, another at 12, a 10 hr, 9 hr, 8 hr and 5.5 hr, with an 11.3 hr duty back home.

 

[FoxHunter]

Can't find the sig letter, but why is that trip disputed? Reset issue or? 28 hrs in Paris, 47 hrs in BOM, 37 in DEL, 25 in DXB, 21 in FRA, then another 69 in FRA before heading home. Generally 2 legs between each layover listed above, longest duty at 12.5, another at 12, a 10 hr, 9 hr, 8 hr and 5.5 hr, with an 11.3 hr duty back home.

This trip is disputed because of the same duty time dhd from CDG to FRA after the DXB-CDG leg. this trips leaves Dubai early afternoon arrives Paris early evening has 2:20 in CDG followed by the dhd First Class on LH. Total duty time 11:59!!! Are they kidding? :angryfire Look like the crew are going to be flying a very easy trip at 150% of normal pay, about $22,000 extra for the Captain in his pay on 9/15.:beer:

 

[Purpled]

Well, if a guy on reserve is getting assigned DPs he ought to unblock his calendar so that folks won't think he's going it on his own.

Fox, stop playing stupid.

 

[ptarmigan]

This trip is disputed because of the same duty time dhd from CDG to FRA after the DXB-CDG leg. this trips leaves Dubai early afternoon arrives Paris early evening has 2:20 in CDG followed by the dhd First Class on LH. Total duty time 11:59!!! Are they kidding? :angryfire Look like the crew are going to be flying a very easy trip at 150% of normal pay, about $22,000 extra for the Captain in his pay on 9/15.:beer:

Thanks, didn't bother saving the letter since I knew I wasn't going to alter my schedule anyway.

As far as blocking the schedule, might not have a thing to do with this, maybe he has an ex, or future-ex, -wife that has "ways" of accessing his schedule to use in court or some other similar issue. There are lots of reasons to block the schedule that having nothing to do with DP's or DFT/VLT, so some might consider giving the benefit of the doubt to fellow pilots.

 

[Purpled]

This trip is disputed because of the same duty time dhd from CDG to FRA after the DXB-CDG leg. this trips leaves Dubai early afternoon arrives Paris early evening has 2:20 in CDG followed by the dhd First Class on LH. Total duty time 11:59!!! Are they kidding? :angryfire Look like the crew are going to be flying a very easy trip at 150% of normal pay, about $22,000 extra for the Captain in his pay on 9/15.:beer:

You must be one of those out and back only guys, or perhaps day domestic only. Must be nice to not have to worry about the other guys...on the other side of the world and their body clocks, fighting with security at the airport and the other difficulties with these types of trips.

The duty period in question starts with an approx 3am body clock(MEM time) alert, fly a 2-person crew 7hr flight from DXB to CDG. You get two meals on that flight, unfortunately the last 4 hours of this duty period is in the pax terminal then a 1+10 d/h to FRA. You arrive around midnight, so you go through the night hungry. The hotel bar in FRA closes at 2300L. I just don't see that the d/h being 1st class makes much of a difference on such a short flight.

There are very few duty periods in any bid-pack that go this long without the ability to rest(sleep), whether it be in a day-room, on the futon in the back of the acft, or at least in a recliner. This is not an acceptable duty period.

Either join the SIG and do some work, or support their decisions. Are they always right? Of course not. But I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way STFU!

 

[Purpled]

Too late for editing above

Also, with only a 2hour or so turn before the D/H, I'd be worried about that connection even happening. Especially with the heightened security in EU. This could put the freight in jeopardy down the line. Not a good move for the bean-counters IMHO.

 

[JohnQ]

I hate to chime in, because I am not a FDX, and your business is your business. But I don't understand the mentality of "the pairings are disputed because of xxxxxx, so only a reserve should fly them."

Huh? If the trip is unacceptable, then shouldn't it be unacceptable for all of you? How is a guy on reserve somehow miraculously more qualified to fly a trip that should not be flown by a regular lineholder?

It reminds me of the saying from "Animal Farm." All animals (pilots) are equal, but some (regular) are more equal than others (reserve)."

But since I am not a FDX guy, if you want to say, "go away!" I understand.

 

[capt_zman]

Because the reserve guy is the bottom of the line. Every airline has crappy trips that test the legal boundries and at FDX, some of those trips are questioned by the union, therefore making them disputed and not a part of bidpack line. But, just because they are disputed doesn't mean that they go away (they go into open time), which logically means that the junior man gets it. The problem at FDX is that senior folks will actually pick these up out of open time to make a couple extra bucks, which in turn undermines the union and pilot force by sending a message to mgmt that these trips aren't that bad.

 

[FoxHunter]

You must be one of those out and back only guys, or perhaps day domestic only. Must be nice to not have to worry about the other guys...on the other side of the world and their body clocks, fighting with security at the airport and the other difficulties with these types of trips.

The duty period in question starts with an approx 3am body clock(MEM time) alert, fly a 2-person crew 7hr flight from DXB to CDG. You get two meals on that flight, unfortunately the last 4 hours of this duty period is in the pax terminal then a 1+10 d/h to FRA. You arrive around midnight, so you go through the night hungry. The hotel bar in FRA closes at 2300L. I just don't see that the d/h being 1st class makes much of a difference on such a short flight.

There are very few duty periods in any bid-pack that go this long without the ability to rest(sleep), whether it be in a day-room, on the futon in the back of the acft, or at least in a recliner. This is not an acceptable duty period.

Either join the SIG and do some work, or support their decisions. Are they always right? Of course not. But I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way STFU!

Sorry, never do out and backs, I'm a commuter. I have been doing those types of trips for most of the last 36+ years.

You're on day seven of a multi time zone trip I know that I would not be worried about Memphis time.

You would get free snacks and drinks at the lounge in the terminal at CDG, a beer from Manfred in the van to hotel in Mainz, and Rosies is always open at that time of night to take care of FedEx crews.:beer:

You're in the wrong line of work if you think a duty period of 11:59 is too long without a nap. Not even talking about the fact the last four hours is as a passenger. You're not serious, are you?

 

[BlitzBurgh]

Just recently did a 10 day trip similiar to the disputed pairing in question. Spent 4 days in Dubai and had the worst sleep I've ever had on a trip. Usually I would make it about 3 hrs a night, wake up for 2 hrs and then go back to sleep for 3 to 4 hrs. Captain I was with had the same problem. On the day we left Dubai to fly to Paris I woke up at 4 am and the capt woke up at 2am. We both stayed awake until the alert call that morning for a 1120 am departure. Both of us were tired by the time we hit paris. I wouldn't want to then have to go to the pax terminal in the same duty period and jump through all their hoops for a deadhead. I usually never have a problem sleeping anywhere or anytime. Never could figure out what the problem was. By putting the d/h on the trip could make for a very long day.

 

[Purpled]

Sorry, never do out and backs, I'm a commuter. I have been doing those types of trips for most of the last 36+ years.

You're on day seven of a multi time zone trip I know that I would not be worried about Memphis time.

You would get free snacks and drinks at the lounge in the terminal at CDG, a beer from Manfred in the van to hotel in Mainz, and Rosies is always open at that time of night to take care of FedEx crews.:beer:

You're in the wrong line of work if you think a duty period of 11:59 is too long without a nap. Not even talking about the fact the last four hours is as a passenger. You're not serious, are you?

So I guess from you lack of denial that you're a day domestic guy.


I am serious, are you? You should be worried about Memphis time. If you think your body adjusts in only 7 days, you're an idiot. The changes associated with flipping your body clock continue for weeks after you adjust your sleep schedule. You can mitigate that with naps...I say again, naps. I've actually flown with guys who stay on LBT. They don't go out and 'enjoy' the layovers as much as some, but the do remain pretty consistant with sleep patterns. Rosies and being a passenger don't address the main problem with this trip. That D/H should be after a nap (read: layover)

Free snacks, I see, it's all about money to you...poor bastard. It's not about beer, snacks or anything but available rest.

I don't know what you have against making life here better, or even keeping it from getting worse. Get some self-respect, we're making $750 million dollars a quarter, they can afford to not fly me to death on these trips.

Some guys here know who you are, somebody look at his schedule and see the last time he had a 12hr duty day without the opportunity to take a nap...oh, I see, there aren't any, I'm sure.

Become a team player or piss off.

 

[sandman2122]

Guys should call in fatigued when they get to Paris.........

 

[El Pobre]

I'm getting fatigued reading about all of this fatigue.

 

[Purpled]

So I guess from you lack of denial that you're a day domestic guy.


I am serious, are you? You should be worried about Memphis time. If you think your body adjusts in only 7 days, you're an idiot. The changes associated with flipping your body clock continue for weeks after you adjust your sleep schedule. You can mitigate that with naps...I say again, naps. I've actually flown with guys who stay on LBT. They don't go out and 'enjoy' the layovers as much as some, but the do remain pretty consistant with sleep patterns. Rosies and being a passenger don't address the main problem with this trip. That D/H should be after a nap (read: layover)

Free snacks, I see, it's all about money to you...poor bastard. It's not about beer, snacks or anything but available rest.

I don't know what you have against making life here better, or even keeping it from getting worse. Get some self-respect, we're making $750 million dollars a quarter, they can afford to not fly me to death on these trips.

Some guys here know who you are, somebody look at his schedule and see the last time he had a 12hr duty day without the opportunity to take a nap...oh, I see, there aren't any, I'm sure.

Become a team player or piss off.

I guess he pissed off!

 

[ERJ Jay]

Yall take this with a grain of salt, but:
I'm a transcon commuter for a jet feeder.
Usually try to work 4-days, or several day trips back to back to reduce the number of commutes, so I don't do round the world trips - but my body never knows what time zone it's in.
3-5 legs per day, time zones from St. Johns to Bakersfield California for the high value-high time trips.
Average scheduled duty day 13 hours +/-
Average overnight 9-10 hours.
If you're good to start - you're good to finish.
It's not perfect, but it's reality.
One leg and then a DH - 12 hour duty day is not the end of the world.
The fact that the company continues to build them instead of the grievance committee dealing with the problem is your union's fault.
If people don't grieve these trips, they'll never fix them.
I don't even work at FDX and I know these trips exist. If you didn't want to fly them, why did you go there?
There are many of us (thousands actually) who would love to be given the opportunity to fly those disputed pairings for FDX. Until that changes and you start grieving them, the company will have no incentive to change them.