FedEx Disputed Pairings

[Falconjet]

Jay: Thanks for setting us straight.

Actually, the union has a process in place in its continuing effort to IMPROVE the scheduling of trips at FedEx. The company can't build a trip that is illegal, but they can build them in ways that UNECESSARILY put the crews in a situation where it is likely they will be unduly fatigued while operating that pairing.

The process requires that if the pairing is disputed by the scheduling improvement group (SIG) then the company won't put the pairing in any line and it will go into open time. During the secondary line build process the company can't assign a disputed pairing to a pilot unless they specifically REQUEST it or VOLUNTEER for general trip assignments. The union and the SIG have asked that we NOT do that.

Because the trip is legal it will still get flown. It will fall on a reserve crew because they are the only ones who the company CAN assign it to. The SIG and the company work to rebuild the onerous pairing so that in future months anybody can fly it. Meantime they ask those who do end up flying it to send in a feedback report to make sure that it is in fact an onerous trip and how much they were actually able to sleep.

That is the way the process is set up to work. IF, however, pilots REQUEST or VOLUNTEER for the disputed pairings, the SIG loses the ability to challenge the pairing and it can go into the bidpacks from then on. No more chance to try to improve the pairing.

All we are asking is for the crewforce to support the SIG and give them a chance to improve all of our lives in the long run, as opposed to taking the money and running for short term financial gain. Just looking for folks to be team players.

There is no excuse to volunteer for a disputed pairing. None.

Thanks for listening.

FJ

 

[ERJ Jay]

IF, however, pilots REQUEST or VOLUNTEER for the disputed pairings, the SIG loses the ability to challenge the pairing and it can go into the bidpacks from then on. No more chance to try to improve the pairing.

All we are asking is for the crewforce to support the SIG and give them a chance to improve all of our lives in the long run, as opposed to taking the money and running for short term financial gain. Just looking for folks to be team players.

That I 100% agree with. Unfortunately, your union/MEC (and mine too) is only as strong as it's weakest link (pilot).

 

[Falconjet]

That I 100% agree with. Unfortunately, your union/MEC (and mine too) is only as strong as it's weakest link (pilot).

Yes, we are in violent agreement there!

FJ

 

[FoxHunter]

I guess he pissed off!

Not a chance! So please explain how every commuter finishes a long duty period, ANC-MEM, CDG-MEM, STN-MEM, VCP-MEM, KIX-MEM and then takes a jumpseat home after a two to four hour wait. Would you suggest that the company ban the jumpseat until each crewmember gets a proper rest?

 

[FoxHunter]

Jay: Thanks for setting us straight.

Actually, the union has a process in place in its continuing effort to IMPROVE the scheduling of trips at FedEx. The company can't build a trip that is illegal, but they can build them in ways that UNECESSARILY put the crews in a situation where it is likely they will be unduly fatigued while operating that pairing.

The process requires that if the pairing is disputed by the scheduling improvement group (SIG) then the company won't put the pairing in any line and it will go into open time. During the secondary line build process the company can't assign a disputed pairing to a pilot unless they specifically REQUEST it or VOLUNTEER for general trip assignments. The union and the SIG have asked that we NOT do that.

Because the trip is legal it will still get flown. It will fall on a reserve crew because they are the only ones who the company CAN assign it to. The SIG and the company work to rebuild the onerous pairing so that in future months anybody can fly it. Meantime they ask those who do end up flying it to send in a feedback report to make sure that it is in fact an onerous trip and how much they were actually able to sleep.

That is the way the process is set up to work. IF, however, pilots REQUEST or VOLUNTEER for the disputed pairings, the SIG loses the ability to challenge the pairing and it can go into the bidpacks from then on. No more chance to try to improve the pairing.

All we are asking is for the crewforce to support the SIG and give them a chance to improve all of our lives in the long run, as opposed to taking the money and running for short term financial gain. Just looking for folks to be team players.

There is no excuse to volunteer for a disputed pairing. None.

Thanks for listening.

FJ

If there is areal problem with a pairing it will wind up in open time. I don't really think the company wants to pay 150% for flying they can adjust and have flown at 100% pay.

If the coach keeps calling bad plays, you're going to lose .

 

[FoxHunter]

Also, with only a 2hour or so turn before the D/H, I'd be worried about that connection even happening. Especially with the heightened security in EU. This could put the freight in jeopardy down the line. Not a good move for the bean-counters IMHO.

You worry about your job and when you're VP of Flight Ops you can worry about all that other stuff.:laugh:

 

[AlbieF15]

George...I support your right to have another opinion...you know that...

On this, however...you are wrong. On duty, I am expected to be fresh, alert, and safe. Other's lives and my own skin (and career) rest on my ability to focus and do the task at hand. 95% of the time--its easy. Its that 5% of the time that requires my 100% alertness and concentration.

On a jumpseat--I am baggage. Oh...I need to be ready to evacuate, etc etc....but there really isn't much requirement for me to contribute. I've jumpseated straight home after the 3 leg MEM-CHS-ATL leg and I've also JS'd to TLH after a long day out and back.... In both cases--I'm pretty much a waste. I sleep hanging in the straps (727) or in a CRJ or ATR seat (home to PFN from ATL). I don't think comparing how I feel AFTER my duty period and DURING my duty period has any merit--that is apples and oranges.

By the same token...over the years I learned what a lot of more experienced FDX pilots told me--don't kill yourself to get home at the first opportunity just to show up dog-a$$ tired and worthless to your family. Instead...TAKE THE HOTEL...rest up...and go home later....and feel like a normal person. FWIW...I generally do that now. I am GLAD to have that option...

 

[FoxHunter]

Because the reserve guy is the bottom of the line. Every airline has crappy trips that test the legal boundries and at FDX, some of those trips are questioned by the union, therefore making them disputed and not a part of bidpack line. But, just because they are disputed doesn't mean that they go away (they go into open time), which logically means that the junior man gets it. The problem at FDX is that senior folks will actually pick these up out of open time to make a couple extra bucks, which in turn undermines the union and pilot force by sending a message to mgmt that these trips aren't that bad.

Are you saying that it is much better to put a new Captain with a new F/O and new RFO or S/O and stick them with the trip paying 100% vs 150%. That sounds like the union is degrading safety in that case.

 

[FoxHunter]

George...I support your right to have another opinion...you know that...

On this, however...you are wrong. On duty, I am expected to be fresh, alert, and safe. Other's lives and my own skin (and career) rest on my ability to focus and do the task at hand. 95% of the time--its easy. Its that 5% of the time that requires my 100% alertness and concentration.

On a jumpseat--I am baggage. Oh...I need to be ready to evacuate, etc etc....but there really isn't much requirement for me to contribute. I've jumpseated straight home after the 3 leg MEM-CHS-ATL leg and I've also JS'd to TLH after a long day out and back.... In both cases--I'm pretty much a waste. I sleep hanging in the straps (727) or in a CRJ or ATR seat (home to PFN from ATL). I don't think comparing how I feel AFTER my duty period and DURING my duty period has any merit--that is apples and oranges.

By the same token...over the years I learned what a lot of more experienced FDX pilots told me--don't kill yourself to get home at the first opportunity just to show up dog-a$$ tired and worthless to your family. Instead...TAKE THE HOTEL...rest up...and go home later....and feel like a normal person. FWIW...I generally do that now. I am GLAD to have that option...

Albie, the trip in question goes DXB-CDG and then the crew goes as a passenger CDG-FRA. Not a hard day. The second duty period of that trip is actually far worse. It goes CDG-FRA-BOM sdt, evening departure out of CDG. I flew that duty period a few months ago, tough, but safe and legal. We have been doing that duty period for years and it has not been disputed.

The union can put bad trips in a disputed status. If they arte sucessful in keeping people from picking them up on VLT/DRF they are creating a safety issue where only the newest, inexperienced guys get forced to fly them. Far better the company has to pay 150% until they fix them.

 

[BamaBoy]

Oh, please...

Are you saying that it is much better to put a new Captain with a new F/O and new RFO or S/O and stick them with the trip paying 100% vs 150%. That sounds like the union is degrading safety in that case.

FH, I've read many of your posts over the years. Although I disagree with the vast majority of your opinions, for the most part they aren't unreasonable... until now!

You know good and well that neither Zman nor our union are saying that they want junior pilots flying these trips, especially at less pay! They don't want ANYONE flying these trips. Unfortunately, this is the process that we've been forced to utilize in order to accomplish the greater goal of removing these onerous pairings. If you don't believe they are onerous, you are certainly entitled to that opinion. Do not, however, insinuate that this union that you so enjoy skewering would intentionally compromise safety. As hard as it is for you to accept, they are trying to make life better for us, in spite of those who work so hard to impede their progress.

 

[FoxHunter]

Unfortunately, this is the process that we've been forced to utilize in order to accomplish the greater goal of removing these onerous pairings. If you don't believe they are onerous, you are certainly entitled to that opinion. Do not, however, insinuate that this union that you so enjoy skewering would intentionally compromise safety. As hard as it is for you to accept, they are trying to make life better for us, in spite of those who work so hard to impede their progress.

It would be hard for any reasonable person to say with a straight face that the pairing in question is a onerous pairing. I am not saying that they intentionally compromise safety. They just have failed to recognize that the have indeed comprimised safety. Actually they may have not because crewmember for various reasons have stepped forward and flown the disputed trips. Yes, I know in their mind they are trying to make life better, in their opinion.

 

[USMCFDX]

In ANC reserve goes senior so the poor senior guys get stuck with these pairings instead of staying home and fishing.

 

[Purpled]

Fox, welcome back. It's obvious that you're an idiot and an ass, but I invite you to post here the idea that you posted on APC about getting a TA. I actually think it's a good idea for many reasons, no kidding.

 

[Purpled]

Yall take this with a grain of salt, but:
I'm a transcon commuter for a jet feeder.
Usually try to work 4-days, or several day trips back to back to reduce the number of commutes, so I don't do round the world trips - but my body never knows what time zone it's in.
3-5 legs per day, time zones from St. Johns to Bakersfield California for the high value-high time trips.
Average scheduled duty day 13 hours +/-
Average overnight 9-10 hours.
If you're good to start - you're good to finish.
It's not perfect, but it's reality.
One leg and then a DH - 12 hour duty day is not the end of the world.
The fact that the company continues to build them instead of the grievance committee dealing with the problem is your union's fault.
If people don't grieve these trips, they'll never fix them.
I don't even work at FDX and I know these trips exist. If you didn't want to fly them, why did you go there?
There are many of us (thousands actually) who would love to be given the opportunity to fly those disputed pairings for FDX. Until that changes and you start grieving them, the company will have no incentive to change them.

OK, here goes:

First off, many of the 'disputes' get resolved in the bidpack-building process. Some don't and end up in Open time, but the process works to some degree up to this point. The union actually does a pretty good job with this, it's just a few loser line pilots that keep taking the one's that survive that we have a problem with.

Sorry that you're schedule sucks so badly, but why don't you demand better pay and work rules where you work? That's what we're trying to do. If you're not interested in doing that, then you should find a different occupation, because rolling over and taking it up the arse is not the way to deal with the job.

Thousands want my job, so I should let it go to shat? My wife's hot and many want her, should I just let her get fat? NO! She keeps running or doesn't get the allowance(i keed i keed), but you get my point.

 

[Purpled]

You worry about your job and when you're VP of Flight Ops you can worry about all that other stuff.:laugh:

Actually, I think the company wants people who worry about the freight moving on time. As far as what happens when I'm the VP of flight ops, you let me worry about that and you worry about yourself.

 

[Purpled]

Not a chance! So please explain how every commuter finishes a long duty period, ANC-MEM, CDG-MEM, STN-MEM, VCP-MEM, KIX-MEM and then takes a jumpseat home after a two to four hour wait. Would you suggest that the company ban the jumpseat until each crewmember gets a proper rest?

What a pilot does after his duty period is his problem. What the company does to me/us during a duty period is the issue.

I suspect that the jumpseating pilot is catching some zzzs in a recliner or on a therma-rest in the back, but again, his problem if he chooses to do so.

 

[Purpled]

The second duty period of that trip is actually far worse. It goes CDG-FRA-BOM sdt, evening departure out of CDG.

You do get some rest on the FRA-BOM leg. Certainly not an ideal day, but at least there's a nap in there.

 

[Sparkmo]

Different Take

Look at it a little differently. If it wasn't disputed, it would (in nearly every case) be included on a line and we wouldn't be able to pick it up out of open time. So arguing over the ability to scarf it out of open time (which there isn't anything except dipsputed pairings) is pointless. I support the PSIT volunteers.

 

[hogfan]

Do you guys seriously think that a 59 year old Captain gives a dang what you or I think about what he does? If you do, you ought to come up for air. The reality is, this guy only has a few more months of earning power, and he's doing everything he can to improve his lot in life, just as you'll do when your time is up.

 

[Falconjet]

Ah, the old everybody else does it, so I have to too rationalization.

Yeah, thats the ticket.

With all due respect hog, you have absolutely no idea what I will do when I am 59. One thing I will do, you can take to the bank, is support my union and their efforts as long as I am in the union. If I can't do that, I will quit the union. Don't imagine that happening either.

Supporting the SIG and the union is the VERY LEAST I can do.

Letting the rest of the crewforce depend on me is another.

FJ

 

[hogfan]

Falcon, I'm glad to hear you have such upstanding morals. I've been an ALPA member since '95, and it has been my experience that a person in that position is going to do what is best for them, with zero regard to your opinion of it. You can call it jaded if you like, but I call it reality.