FedEx Career vs UPS Career

[fr8r]

I know this isn't scientific, but you may find it interesting. I used the info posted on airlinepilotcentral.com to compare FedEx to UPS. In my little study, I considered all other things equal. First, the most junior captain at FedEx was hired 2001. Most junior captain at UPS hired 1998. I used that information as my guide for comparing a 25 year career at each company. The numbers posted are the gross income before taxes and equal a career long running total. Here you go:

First 5 years comparison:
~FE for one year at each company.
~FO for 3 years at FedEx, and upgrade to 727 captain at year 5.
~FO for the next 4 years at UPS.

~FedEx wages = $399,600 & UPS wages = $424,125~

10 year comparison:
~FedEx +5 more years as 727 Captain = $1,135,752
~UPS +2 more FO years and a Captain upgrade at year 8 = $1,268,475 (10yr)

12 year comparison:
~I know this is an unlikely transition, but I upgraded the FedEx 727 Captain to a wide body captain at year 12. The numbers = $1,465,200
~Since UPS pays the same for FO or Captain regardless of the hull, I left my UPS guy as a captain. His gross pay = $1,699,425

15 years:
~FedEx = $2,008,656
~UPS = $2,354,625
25 years:
~FedEx = $3,837,936
~ups = $4,538,625

A total difference of $700,689!! (OR, a pretty nice crib)

 

[MalteseX]

I know this isn't scientific, but you may find it interesting. I used the info posted on airlinepilotcentral.com to compare FedEx to UPS. In my little study, I considered all other things equal. First, the most junior captain at FedEx was hired 2001. Most junior captain at UPS hired 1998. I used that information as my guide for comparing a 25 year career at each company. The numbers posted are the gross income before taxes and equal a career long running total. Here you go:

15 years:
~FedEx = $2,008,656
~UPS = $2,354,625
25 years:
~FedEx = $3,837,936
~ups = $4,538,625

A total difference of $700,689!! (OR, a pretty nice crib)

I had done this on my own when considering which company would be better (financial-wise) when I was applying for jobs.
I did not come out with such a large disparity in the numbers..... so I wanted to investigate my numbers vs yours to see where the discrepancy was.

I think that the numbers you use may be valid AT THE MOMENT, but won't be reflective of salary differences over a longer period.
REASON: The website you cite is using the new contract numbers from the recent UPS contract with raises already included. The FedEx numbers are from the 1998 contract. However, the company and union recently had a new TA agreement. The new raises haven't been included on the website (probably because it hasn't even been voted upon). However, this TA or another one will surely be enacted, bringing the disparity in your numbers much closer together, especially if you go out several years.

I think any pilot would be well-off if they were fortunate enough to work for either one of these companies; and that the "rewards" will level-out over the long term .....

 

[dpilot83]

I wish I were HALF the man my dog THINKS I am !!!

I like it

 

[fr8r]

I think any pilot would be well-off if they were fortunate enough to work for either one of these companies; and that the "rewards" will level-out over the long term .....[/quote]

I agree. My little sudyt just shows you how bored I was last night! Also, the variables will change from pilot to pilot (i.e. upgrades, overtime, etc...). As a former freight dog who is currently in the corporate world, I am interested in both companies. I have also worked close to both at times in my career and I wouldn't turn either down. I used to clean lavs and fuel planes for UPS, and I also used to fly Caravans for a "feeder" company. Anyhow, that being said, I appreciate your input. Someday, I will get back to the cargo sector.

Fr8r

 

[MountyFlyer]

Does anyone have any info regarding future retirements at UPS?? I know FedEX is planning on a few hundred a year for a long time to come. UPS has a smaller pilot group and was wondering if anyone had any gouge out there that shows the retirements coming up for UPS. Thx

MF

 

[livethedream]

the big question is how to get on the short list...

 

[ptarmigan]

I know this isn't scientific, but you may find it interesting. I used the info posted on airlinepilotcentral.com to compare FedEx to UPS. In my little study, I considered all other things equal. First, the most junior captain at FedEx was hired 2001. Most junior captain at UPS hired 1998. I used that information as my guide for comparing a 25 year career at each company. The numbers posted are the gross income before taxes and equal a career long running total. Here you go:

First 5 years comparison:
~FE for one year at each company.
~FO for 3 years at FedEx, and upgrade to 727 captain at year 5.
~FO for the next 4 years at UPS.

~FedEx wages = $399,600 & UPS wages = $424,125~

10 year comparison:
~FedEx +5 more years as 727 Captain = $1,135,752
~UPS +2 more FO years and a Captain upgrade at year 8 = $1,268,475 (10yr)

12 year comparison:
~I know this is an unlikely transition, but I upgraded the FedEx 727 Captain to a wide body captain at year 12. The numbers = $1,465,200
~Since UPS pays the same for FO or Captain regardless of the hull, I left my UPS guy as a captain. His gross pay = $1,699,425

15 years:
~FedEx = $2,008,656
~UPS = $2,354,625
25 years:
~FedEx = $3,837,936
~ups = $4,538,625

A total difference of $700,689!! (OR, a pretty nice crib)

Not only are you comparing old FedEx rates against new UPS rates, but your credit hour comparisons are questionable as well. Also, the transition from narrow body to wide body capt at FedEx is almost for sure going to be well before year 12.

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

I did a similar comparison in the 70's. It indicated that a career with Braniff was much more lucrative than one with Southwest, a career with Continental (this was pre-Lorenzo, of course) was more lucrative than one with Republic, and that one with the pre-bankruptcy Frontier was far more lucrative than one with li'l ol' FedEx.

In the 80's, I did it again. At that time, it indicated that even though growth at a few major carriers (Eastern, Pan Am, TWA) had stagnated somewhat, over the course of a career one could still expect to make much more at one of them than at a regional or start-up. With the possible exception of Flying Tigers, not many people considered a "career" at a cargo airline to be a career at all. They were regarded more as great places to build time, stay current or sharpen your civilian flying skills while waiting for a class date at one of the Legacies.

By the 90's, a career at any of the branded cargo carriers had grown to near-parity with that of a Legacy. Anybody who came onto the job market in their mid-30's or later probably stood to attain career earnings that were as high for flying cargo as they were for people. However, schedules, equipment, and prestige were still far higher for pilots who were flying people. Of course, that all changed with 2 things...the growth of the internet (and home-based shopping), and 9/11.

The point I'm trying to make is that while prognosticating about future earning potential based on current labor contracts or market conditions is an interesting diversion, it bears little relation to what happens in real life. Companies can be built or lost on one or two bad decisions, and "Flavor of the Week" employers in this business rarely remain so for more than a decade at most. After that, growth slows as competitors rush in to grab some of the market. Wages are driven downward as a result. Anybody can look at current pay rates and know who the best carriers to work for today are. In a free market, trying to guess which carriers will be the best ones to spend the next 10, 20, or even 30 years is so complicated and fraught with chance that it should be considered a crap shoot at best.

 

[Purpled]

I did a similar comparison in the 70's. It indicated that a career with Braniff was much more lucrative than one with Southwest, a career with Continental (this was pre-Lorenzo, of course) was more lucrative than one with Republic, and that one with the pre-bankruptcy Frontier was far more lucrative than one with li'l ol' FedEx.

In the 80's, I did it again. At that time, it indicated that even though growth at a few major carriers (Eastern, Pan Am, TWA) had stagnated somewhat, over the course of a career one could still expect to make much more at one of them than at a regional or start-up. With the possible exception of Flying Tigers, not many people considered a "career" at a cargo airline to be a career at all. They were regarded more as great places to build time, stay current or sharpen your civilian flying skills while waiting for a class date at one of the Legacies.

By the 90's, a career at any of the branded cargo carriers had grown to near-parity with that of a Legacy. Anybody who came onto the job market in their mid-30's or later probably stood to attain career earnings that were as high for flying cargo as they were for people. However, schedules, equipment, and prestige were still far higher for pilots who were flying people. Of course, that all changed with 2 things...the growth of the internet (and home-based shopping), and 9/11.

The point I'm trying to make is that while prognosticating about future earning potential based on current labor contracts or market conditions is an interesting diversion, it bears little relation to what happens in real life. Companies can be built or lost on one or two bad decisions, and "Flavor of the Week" employers in this business rarely remain so for more than a decade at most. After that, growth slows as competitors rush in to grab some of the market. Wages are driven downward as a result. Anybody can look at current pay rates and know who the best carriers to work for today are. In a free market, trying to guess which carriers will be the best ones to spend the next 10, 20, or even 30 years is so complicated and fraught with chance that it should be considered a crap shoot at best.

WD,

Semi-Valid. But how do you suggest someone pick an employer in today's market?

 

[fr8r]

Not only are you comparing old FedEx rates against new UPS rates, but your credit hour comparisons are questionable as well. Also, the transition from narrow body to wide body capt at FedEx is almost for sure going to be well before year 12.

It was a NON SCIENTIFIC comparison for sh!7s and giggles. The credit hour comparisons are correct, so, you are welcome to go through a half hour of simple math to prove me wrong if you would like. I also stated that going from a 727 Captain to a wide body captain at year 12 was not likely. Thanks for reiterating that fact. That was done to see if I could get the numbers closer. This is also the reason I tend to like UPS a little better... you get the same pay schedule regardless of aircraft. I might even argue that it could lead to a better quality of life.

Cheers,
Fr8r

 

[TheBaron]

It was a NON SCIENTIFIC comparison for sh!7s and giggles. The credit hour comparisons are correct, so, you are welcome to go through a half hour of simple math to prove me wrong if you would like. I also stated that going from a 727 Captain to a wide body captain at year 12 was not likely. Thanks for reiterating that fact. That was done to see if I could get the numbers closer. This is also the reason I tend to like UPS a little better... you get the same pay schedule regardless of aircraft. I might even argue that it could lead to a better quality of life.

Cheers,
Fr8r

I think you misunderstood the point. Twelve years to wide-body Captain is a bit pessimistic and does the opposite of bringing the numbers closer together. Ten years, or slightly less, would be more realistic in todays environment of expansion and retirements. You should also be using wide-body F/O pay for years 1.5 to 5. And add in the uniform premium...ours don't look so stinkin' ugly!

 

[fr8r]

I think you misunderstood the point. Twelve years to wide-body Captain is a bit pessimistic and does the opposite of bringing the numbers closer together. Ten years, or slightly less, would be more realistic in todays environment of expansion and retirements. You should also be using wide-body F/O pay for years 1.5 to 5. And add in the uniform premium...ours don't look so stinkin' ugly!

I guess my hypothetical little study has ruffled some feathers. So, since I have never directly been an employee of FedEx, I apologize for my ignorance. I only did this because I was bored, not to bash anybody or a company. Again, it was NON-SCIENTIFIC from the start.

 

[ptarmigan]

I don't think anyone is "upset". I think that you made some bad assumptions in doing that analysis, and that should be pointed out. Namely:

1. Using old FedEx rates (all that are currently available, but there is a TA out there with new ones in it), against NEW UPS rates;

2. Somehow thinking that it would take LONGER than 12 years to be a wide body Capt at FedEx (when the reality is closer to 8 right now, I believe).

It seems you are the one defensive of your numbers!

 

[fr8r]

I don't think anyone is "upset". I think that you made some bad assumptions in doing that analysis, and that should be pointed out. Namely:

1. Using old FedEx rates (all that are currently available, but there is a TA out there with new ones in it), against NEW UPS rates;

2. Somehow thinking that it would take LONGER than 12 years to be a wide body Capt at FedEx (when the reality is closer to 8 right now, I believe).

It seems you are the one defensive of your numbers!

Wow! This is getting ridiculous.

 

[capt. megadeth]

The point I'm trying to make is that while prognosticating about future earning potential based on current labor contracts or market conditions is an interesting diversion, it bears little relation to what happens in real life. Companies can be built or lost on one or two bad decisions, and "Flavor of the Week" employers in this business rarely remain so for more than a decade at most. After that, growth slows as competitors rush in to grab some of the market. Wages are driven downward as a result. Anybody can look at current pay rates and know who the best carriers to work for today are. In a free market, trying to guess which carriers will be the best ones to spend the next 10, 20, or even 30 years is so complicated and fraught with chance that it should be considered a crap shoot at best.

No doubt. People walk around with blinders on today. They look at NOW. They forget about yesterday in a second and they definitely don't look out far enough into the future. When I got hired at UPS, people told me I never have to update my logbook. Uh, never say never. Well said, Dan.

 

[capt. megadeth]

And add in the uniform premium...ours don't look so stinkin' ugly!

Oh geez, who gives a crap (no pun intended) what the uniform looks like? The co. pays for our entire uniform, flight bag and Travelpro.

 

[TheBaron]

I guess my hypothetical little study has ruffled some feathers. So, since I have never directly been an employee of FedEx, I apologize for my ignorance. I only did this because I was bored, not to bash anybody or a company. Again, it was NON-SCIENTIFIC from the start.

Didn't ruffle my feathers in the least. Just thought you might want to use more accurate information in your comparison. I've done the same "what if" calculations before sitting on a layover. No problem.

Oh geez, who gives a crap (no pun intended) what the uniform looks like? The co. pays for our entire uniform, flight bag and Travelpro

...now there are some ruffled feathers!
It was a joke! Chill.

 

[fr8r]

Didn't ruffle my feathers in the least. Just thought you might want to use more accurate information in your comparison. I've done the same "what if" calculations before sitting on a layover. No problem.



...now there are some ruffled feathers!
It was a joke! Chill.

Isn't that the truth! What can brown do for you?

 

[b757driver]

Isn't that the truth! What can brown do for you?

Well, they "lost" a $2,000 Dell laptop computer being delivered from the manufacturer, failed to heed customer's specific delivery instructions and to top it all, only made one attempt to deliver instead of the obligatory three!
Dell wrote the whole thing off, used Fedex for the next delivery and someone at UPS came out with a brand-new computer......Go figure

 

[Habib]

" Dell wrote the whole thing off, used Fedex for the next delivery and someone at UPS came out with a brand-new computer......Go figure"

So you are saying UPS workers are Smarter?

 

[b757driver]

" Dell wrote the whole thing off, used Fedex for the next delivery and someone at UPS came out with a brand-new computer......Go figure"

So you are saying UPS workers are Smarter?

Nope, just answering the question "what can brown do for you"!!!