FedEx and Pilots reach TA !!!!

[Purpledog]

7% B fund? No freakin way. What's UPS getting? Double that? Money in my pocket is better than promises any day.

 

[eatme]

12% B fund, I believe in their TA

 

[Babylon]

The leaked parts don't sound so good.

Our pay rates would go from CA 1st year 224 to 4th yr 245, UPS goes 223 to 244 4th yr. Their FO rates go up almost the same as ours - much better increase in the UPS TA since they were coming from a lower point here.

UPS TA trip rig is 3:75 and I think ours will be the same

Any capture on long flights for us?

UPS 1% A and 12% B. We add 1% to our B to 7% - theirs is MUCH better

Insurance - no idea how bad ours will get but theirs always has been good and stays good even with the increases (max of $201/month/family) at year 2012.

Per diem - UPS goes up to 2.00 and 3.00 and our TA is 1.90 and 2.70

Looks like we might get small intl override increase?

There was talk of the UPS folks voting theirs down when they see ours - I don't see any reason for that. It's a little surprising that our TA matches theirs almost exactly (and we started from a higher position). Also UPS was able to tie their A fund/pension to management's - that's HUGE.

All in all from what is leaked I'd say not too good of improvements for us. Will wait to see the retiree benefits (that will probably only last for this contract anyway - i.e. doesn't help guys under 50) and scope improvements.

 

[FoxHunter]

UPS 1% A and 12% B. We add 1% to our B to 7% - theirs is MUCH better

I think you may find a few UPS people would differ. The IRS limits the amount you can set aside for retirement. We have a far better balance of what is permitted.

 

[Purpled]

I think you may find a few UPS people would differ. The IRS limits the amount you can set aside for retirement. We have a far better balance of what is permitted.

Details please.

 

[Babylon]

One more thing - Agency Shop - this was nice to force those non-paying, scum sucking non membes to pay whether they like it or not. We don't have any non members on this thread do we?

 

[FoxHunter]

Details please.

IRS Announces Pension Plan Limitations for 2006

 

[FoxHunter]

One more thing - Agency Shop - this was nice to force those non-paying, scum sucking non membes to pay whether they like it or not. We don't have any non members on this thread do we?

Sorry, but it has been reported that current non-members are exempt from the Agency Shop payments.

 

[seefive]

Go back under your rock FH. Too little, too late.

 

[Frac Daddy]

IRS Announces Pension Plan Limitations for 2006

"The limitation for defined contribution plans under section 415(c)(1)(A) is increased from $42,000 to $44,000." If you want to drop that much in my B fund every year; I can live with that limitation.

 

[Babylon]

Ok Fox Hunter - am I missing something then on contributions? If max is 44k and they get 12% in their B plan, you'd have to make over $350K to even reach the limits - I could care less for the kind of whore that works to make that much.

Purple Tail - what kind of special credibility are you giving to the Wall Street Journal? They are no different than any other media outlet except that they will ALWAYS be pro-big business and anti-labor (you and me).

 

[Babylon]

one more thing and a question

- inflation rates 2003-2005 were low but still at 2.3, 2.7, and 3.4 respectively. FEDEX is getting on average 3%/yr in this contract (the 9% initially includes the last 2 years of negotiations). That makes the raise more or less negligible - it's a COLA. My military pay goes up at least that high annually with very little fanfare. When you count the increases in health costs, the pay doesn't make it up. We need significant rig changes to make any real pay raise based on "the incredible profitability of FEDEX that the pilots have been a part of".

Now the question - in the past it was conventional wisdom that long contracts were bad - you needed to change them as the company did better. If the comany is in the hurt locker it will change the contracts immediately as has been shown recently with commercial airlines. If this retro pay is more of a "bonus" then why in the world are we doing a short contract? When UPS continues getting pay raises, with the associated B fund inputs long after our contract has gone into ammendable stage - we will be the losers here. I agree with VaB here - if it's just a bonus, then what a waste. Take a look at the company's earlier proposal on the ALPA web site - I'm hoping there are some drastic improvements in scope, work rules, retirement health care and regular health care otherwise it seems like not much has been accomplished.

 

[FoxHunter]

Ok Fox Hunter - am I missing something then on contributions? If max is 44k and they get 12% in their B plan, you'd have to make over $350K to even reach the limits - I could care less for the kind of whore that works to make that much.

Well if you contribute to your 401k, OSP, Sick Leave buy back you get to that number.

Why do you think all these large corporations are dumping their defined benefit plans? It takes a huge amount of money to fund.

 

[ptarmigan]

Once again, people caring only about themselves. That high B fund is great, IF you have a long ways to go, and IF your investment choices did well (a bigger "if" than you might think!). Yeah, let's reduce it to the UPS mix, THAT would be fair to those 50 and up, right? True colors showing here, I think. ME ME ME!

 

[PastV1]

Your B Plan contributuons by the company stop once your income hits the IRS threshold of $170K for this year and $175K for 2007.

Past....

 

[FoxHunter]

Once again, people caring only about themselves. That high B fund is great, IF you have a long ways to go, and IF your investment choices did well (a bigger "if" than you might think!). Yeah, let's reduce it to the UPS mix, THAT would be fair to those 50 and up, right? True colors showing here, I think. ME ME ME!

Everyone looks at the issue from where they sit, just human nature. If we were stupid enough to change the A plan to 1% like UPS in return for a 12% B fund contribution it would in fact have little effect on the older guys since you would not lose the years x 2% only the future years, which are few. The junior, young guys would be shooting themselves in the foot. I suggest they speak to some experts on pensions and they will find out that this extra 5% is worth only a fraction of the 1% per year that they think will be wise to give up in return for the increased B fund. Then is you add the fact that you would be restricted by the 415(c) limits it only gets worse.:crying:

 

[Purpled]

Once again, people caring only about themselves. That high B fund is great, IF you have a long ways to go, and IF your investment choices did well (a bigger "if" than you might think!). Yeah, let's reduce it to the UPS mix, THAT would be fair to those 50 and up, right? True colors showing here, I think. ME ME ME!

Whoaaa, nobody here...that I can see...has suggested getting rid of your due compensation. If such a transition from bit 'A' plan to big 'B' plan were to happen, it wouldn't without due compensation to the senior/older guys.

 

[Purpled]

Everyone looks at the issue from where they sit, just human nature. If we were stupid enough to change the A plan to 1% like UPS in return for a 12% B fund contribution it would in fact have little effect on the older guys since you would not lose the years x 2% only the future years, which are few. The junior, young guys would be shooting themselves in the foot. I suggest they speak to some experts on pensions and they will find out that this extra 5% is worth only a fraction of the 1% per year that they think will be wise to give up in return for the increased B fund. Then is you add the fact that you would be restricted by the 415(c) limits it only gets worse.:crying:

Fox,

You are absolutely correct that the A fund is a much better deal than the B fund, even if the B fund were enhanced. The problem is that so many A plans have disappeared recently that folks are coming to realize that a bird in the hand is worth...well you know. If you calculate the value of your A plan over your expected lifetime to be X dollars, you'd be a fool to pass up a check for X/2 at retirement.

Fred himself said that most companies would be dumping the A plan in the future, and I have little confidence that it will still be around 10 years from now, much less 25 or 35. I'm not sure how the new pension reform will help us out, but I have high confidence that the companies will find a way around it.

You seem like a pretty savvy guy financially, but I think you've got your blinders on here to the real possibilities of what could happen to our(your) retirement. I hope not, since it's just about the best thing I've seen in the business world for labor, but I'm just not convinced.

 

[Laughing_Jakal]

Waste of time

Like mission planning without all the details.....plan early, plan often.

Be patient and let everything come out in the wash.

You guys suffer from premature ejac..er...calculation syndrome.

 

[skykid]

Fred himself said that most companies would be dumping the A plan in the future, and I have little confidence that it will still be around 10 years from now, much less 25 or 35. I'm not sure how the new pension reform will help us out, but I have high confidence that the companies will find a way around it.

Absolutely. I calculate my A plan to pay out exactly zero in 20 or so years when I retire. If I was within a few years, I would maybe count on the minimum that the PBGC pays out when they take over a companies plan. I would much rather have a bigger B plan that I can have control over.