fed ex june 19th....

[FlyBoeingJets]

..... In either case, as has been brought up here many times before, the policy of not hiring active legacy pilots is not because it is beneficial to FedEx; it is because it is harmfull to the legacy carriers. Now I can't guarantee that we have that 'agreement' with them, but let's analyze this.

Would you rather hire a pilot on furlough who could eventually go back to his old airline if they called and he so desired? Or would you rather hire someone who had to quit at the old airline, burning that bridge forever? The latter is certainly the prudent call for FedEx.

Your logic, while sensible, simply does not result in actual policy.

I agree that hiring the legacy guy/gal actively employed is a slam dunk. No chance at recall. But the elephant (JL) never forgets.

JL, or someone higher, does not want current legacy pilots becuase they all have a 1999 or earlier DOH at their current airline (recent Delta callbacks excluded). That means they had their chance to continue to pursue FedEx (if indeed FedEx was their #1 choice) after they landed their pax job but they chose not to. JL knows it takes longer for FedEx to get to those guys but that appreciation ends when you stop trying.

That is why the no current legacy pilots policy exists. Yes to furloughed guys are a recent change to the 2001 policy (circa 2004).

That said, exceptions to the policy seem to be rampant. The common theme, though, is it is ALL about what is beneficial for FedEx. If you think for a second FedEx is worried about increasing training costs at a pax carrier, you haven't studied history. FedEx had hundreds of legacy resignation letters from Delta, UAL and AA furloughees that aren't worth the paper they were written on. They were not honored by the pax carriers as many left FedEx when recalled.

Don't poo poo this information just cause it comes from a SWA guy. I know more than you think I do. (More than I should)




Conjecture below:

My take is the furloughed pilot is facing such strenous reserve schedules and impossibly long waits for Capt that FedEx now feels they will value a FedEx job more than the alternative.

 

[Benjamin Dover]

Conjecture below:

My take is the furloughed pilot is facing such strenous reserve schedules and impossibly long waits for Capt that FedEx now feels they will value a FedEx job more than the alternative.

Boeing,

If you don't think the junior, but not furloughed, active "legacy" pilot also faces these same concerns about schedule and extremely long wait for captain then you also haven't studied history. Junior pilot at shrinking airline = long time jerking gear.

Sounds like you agree with JL, and I'm sure you aren't alone. I doubt things will change while he is the king, so I'm just hoping for all of us out here that retirement is somewhere on the horizon. I'm certain FDX ALPA could care less about this issue as they have more important concerns with the company right now, and I don't blame them. I have many Navy buds at FDX who all agree that the policy sucks but not much can be done while Jack Lewis is still in the office. And it absolutely is his rule - not him following some marching orders from above.

So, to those who agree with the theory that even after we landed our major airline job during the good years, because we chose to stop pursuing FDX then we as a group should be excluded, you are out to lunch. The luxury of hindsight is pretty convenient, but would anyone, JL included, act any differently if they were on with UAL/AA/DAL back in late 90's, 00 when airlines were making a killing? I had my app in with FDX for 2 + years - pre MNG then - DAL came along and FDX finally calls me when I'm on 2nd year pay at Delta. Pre 911, new contract, 60%FAE retirement, top pay rates, Kit Darby says I'm rich, etc. Would you or anyone who supports the JL rule seriously have left at this point?...........

So, my "conjecture" is the policy is very personal and petty and very much goes against reasonable man theory.

Hoping for change,

Ben

 

[Purpled]

Ben, FBJ, & PJ,

I agree with all of your statements emotionally, and I think we'd all agree that it is darn near impossible to change someone's emotional position.

We do, however, get huge corp. discounts on D/H tix, which is very politically motivated. If you think for a second that there wouldn't be an under the table agreement that links these to hiring, then I think you aren't cynical enough yet.

FedEx is all about the bottom line, and while there may be some emotional impetus at the beginning of a policy, it is certainly driven by the mighty dollar in the end.

Like you said, there are always exceptions so don't give up.

Late!

 

[Benjamin Dover]

Ben, FBJ, & PJ,

I agree with all of your statements emotionally, and I think we'd all agree that it is darn near impossible to change someone's emotional position.

We do, however, get huge corp. discounts on D/H tix, which is very politically motivated. If you think for a second that there wouldn't be an under the table agreement that links these to hiring, then I think you aren't cynical enough yet.

FedEx is all about the bottom line, and while there may be some emotional impetus at the beginning of a policy, it is certainly driven by the mighty dollar in the end.

Like you said, there are always exceptions so don't give up.

Late!

Purple,

Appreciate your unflamatory response. But, I still think the bottom line on this one boils down to one guy - JL. I've suffered through many "top notch" mgt. theories at DAL, so believe me, I am quite cynical about what goes on up on the top floors. However, I find it way out there to think that pilot hiring is in any way linked to corporate flight discounts. I'm told that our mgt. fully expects the turnover at the bottom of our list to begin to mirror that of regional airlines. Oh, and when (if) the 500-ish furlough list runs out, guess what - cheaper pilots off the street.

So, my uneducated response is I find it highly unlikely that DAL or any airline management has contacted FDX in any way as to hiring away their "talent".

By the way, I paid my $50 to apply on line at FDX. I think JL should refund my $ and that of 1000's of others who think they meet the mins to work there. Have to check with the good Reverand Al or Jesse on this issue, but if I meet the qualifications as advertised for employment, should I not have the same opportunity for being hired as anyone else, regardless of age, gender, race, or current "legacy" airline employment??

I know, banging my head against my own wall again, but I think anyone that thinks this issue is anything more than a personal agenda is wrong.

Ben

 

[TheBaron]

Boeing,

If you don't think the junior, but not furloughed, active "legacy" pilot also faces these same concerns about schedule and extremely long wait for captain then you also haven't studied history. Junior pilot at shrinking airline = long time jerking gear.

Sounds like you agree with JL, and I'm sure you aren't alone. I doubt things will change while he is the king, so I'm just hoping for all of us out here that retirement is somewhere on the horizon. I'm certain FDX ALPA could care less about this issue as they have more important concerns with the company right now, and I don't blame them. I have many Navy buds at FDX who all agree that the policy sucks but not much can be done while Jack Lewis is still in the office. And it absolutely is his rule - not him following some marching orders from above.

So, to those who agree with the theory that even after we landed our major airline job during the good years, because we chose to stop pursuing FDX then we as a group should be excluded, you are out to lunch. The luxury of hindsight is pretty convenient, but would anyone, JL included, act any differently if they were on with UAL/AA/DAL back in late 90's, 00 when airlines were making a killing? I had my app in with FDX for 2 + years - pre MNG then - DAL came along and FDX finally calls me when I'm on 2nd year pay at Delta. Pre 911, new contract, 60%FAE retirement, top pay rates, Kit Darby says I'm rich, etc. Would you or anyone who supports the JL rule seriously have left at this point?...........

So, my "conjecture" is the policy is very personal and petty and very much goes against reasonable man theory.

Hoping for change,

Ben

Honestly.... yes, I would have left because FedEx was my ultimate goal. I agree with JL's policy. If FedEx wasn't good enough for you back then, we must not be what you really wanted. JL wants to hire people that want to spend their entire career here. When you get to be the man at the top...you can do what you think is fair.
In case you missed it, no one ever said life was fair.
I will agree, however, that the meet n' greet policy is not the way to go.

 

[Purpled]

If it is a personal vendetta, then why is it OK to hire furloughees and not current pilots? I'd think it would be neither, or at least the other way around.

I don't think we'll ever get the true answer, so it's just academic at this point.

What I think we can agree to is that the current meet-n-greet system is broken. It seriously discriminates against commuters and military folks, along with wasting lots of people's time-including management and their staff.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Boeing,

If you don't think the junior, but not furloughed, active "legacy" pilot also faces these same concerns about schedule and extremely long wait for captain then you also haven't studied history......

Sounds like you agree with JL....

Yeah, I know the junior employed dudes are in the same boat. Thanks for the history lesson.

I think there is an argument for hiring dudes on furlough. Once you get thrown out onto the street a year or two, your attitude is less friendly toward your previous airline.

And, no, I DO NOT AGREE with JL's policy. If you hire furloughees, all should be o.k. to hire. I'm surprised a lawsuit is not in the works.

 

[mule]

A lawsuit for what? I'm not a lawyer, but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express...and the last time I checked, the EEOC doesn't say anything about excluding people that are currently employed at xyz company.

I could be very wrong. I'm just not a big fan of litigating everything that happens. Sueing (sp?) for every little "injustice" doesn't seem to be the way to go.

And, no I don't agree with the policy either, but there are a lot of policies that I don't agree with. I'm not going to take them to court over it.

 

[Benjamin Dover]

Honestly.... yes, I would have left because FedEx was my ultimate goal. I agree with JL's policy. If FedEx wasn't good enough for you back then, we must not be what you really wanted. JL wants to hire people that want to spend their entire career here. When you get to be the man at the top...you can do what you think is fair.
In case you missed it, no one ever said life was fair.
I will agree, however, that the meet n' greet policy is not the way to go.

Thanks for an honest response Baron - finally someone agrees that the policy has nothing to do with some corporate "reach-around", but everything to do with "the man" , his thoughts about us legacy guys and a big sweeping assumption about us. Yep, you are correct life isn't fair - but it case you missed it, there has been a big change in the airline pilot career since 911. Is it not possible for one's career aspirations to change based on a changing work and economic evironment? After the tech bubble burst, should corporate America have collectivelly turned it's back on all those that chased the "dot com's" because "obviously company XYZ wasn't good enough for you when you went to work for company 123.com a few years ago, so we're not going to hire you now that they 'dot bombed.'" Times changed in the last 6 years Baron. Reasonable man theory would recognize this.

It's not that FedEx "wasn't good enough for us", but the airline gig was pretty good back then too. Now it's not, but that doesn't seem to matter. If we wound up at a major, then the assumption - by you and JL, is that FDX was not good enough for us back then, so you smugly thumb your nose at us. What about those that didn't meet FedEx mins back then? What about those like me that had our app in for 3 years with no call from FDX until on line somewhere else, and also others like me that were already on our 2nd or 3rd airline job, and chose to settle in.

So, good for you with the reverse crystal ball and you would have quit Delta to go to FedEx back in 1999, but I still say if you polled your purple crowd, most guys would have stayed at that point too. When did FedEx become your "ultimate goal" by the way - before or after 911?

I'm glad JL wants to hire pilots who want to spend their whole career there. They only way we could even start would be to resign, unlike the furloughed guys who burned FedEx when recalled 10 years ago. I would argue that we would be even more loyal employees than those from many other civ/mil sources. We've seen the good days, and seen it all go away. I think we as a group would be pretty motivated to work hard to help FedEx contintue its success, since we've all seen the "other" side.

Hoping for a Jack Lewis retirement party soon,

Ben

 

[wannaBrich]

I have no idea what the past policy has been, but within the last month a current non-furloughed DAL guy was interviewed. I don't think they would have wasted his or their own time if they weren't going to consider him.

 

[Deuce130]

There are always exceptions - I had two UA guys and one AA guy in my new hire class and all three turned in their resignations the day prior to starting. And, get this, one guy asked Jack Lewis what it would take to get an interview. JL told him a letter from Fred Smith. This guy calls a family friend (ahem, Bill Clinton) who calls Fred who calls Jack. Proof once again that it's not what you know it's who you know. In the interest of full disclosure, my dad flew the line for 16 years, though I was right off AF AD when I got hired.