FAs & Seatbelts & Seats

[shon7]

Why are US airlines (by way of their flight attendants) so anal about Seatbelts and Seatbacks.

Is it more safety than litigation?

I just don't understand the passion with which these FAs go after passengers whose seats are just a little reclined during landing or the seatbelt not fastened.

I have not had similar experiences on International Carriers including VS, BA, QF and Cathay.

 

[radarlove]

Because there's not much else to do unless the plane needs to be evacuated?

I know that at Air Italia I got my head taken off for using a portable CD player at cruise with the seatbelt sign off. "Very dangerous! Very dangerous!"

Yeah, right dude.

 

[SWAInflt]

From Day 1 in our Initial Training we are told that the FAA can and will fine us into bankruptcy if we are cited for failing to enforce FARs. Further, we are also subject to company discipline for failing to properly secure the cabin. There are of course a percentage who derive pleasure from telling others what to do...they are the minority. Most of us hate fussing at adults like they are 2 year olds but, the fact of the matter is.....just like pilots...we have rules we are expected to follow and failure to do so can put our jobs on the line. In the end...how hard is it to put up the seat or put on a seatbelt? It only takes two seconds and saves both of us some aggrivation.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Why are US airlines (by way of their flight attendants) so anal about Seatbelts and Seatbacks.

Is it more safety than litigation?

I just don't understand the passion with which these FAs go after passengers whose seats are just a little reclined during landing or the seatbelt not fastened.

I have not had similar experiences on International Carriers including VS, BA, QF and Cathay.

Makes 'em look important.... you know "safety professionals" and all that!


PHXFLYR

 

[Resume Writer]

Why are US airlines (by way of their flight attendants) so anal about Seatbelts and Seatbacks.

Is it more safety than litigation?

I just don't understand the passion with which these FAs go after passengers whose seats are just a little reclined during landing or the seatbelt not fastened.

I have not had similar experiences on International Carriers including VS, BA, QF and Cathay.

It is definitely a little of both - safety and litigation - plus FARs. As FAs, you never want to do anything, just as pilots, to go against FARS, as it could result in litigation, safety or FAA fines.

The seat back issue is important. In the case of an incident / accident, you would be blocking the person behind you from evacuating the aircraft.

When the seat belt sign is turned on, whether prior to takeoff, during flight, or on landing, FAs are required to conduct a compliance check. Anyone not in compliance has to be told. Once they have been told, and choose not to comply, then it is out of the FA's hands.

I never enjoyed hounding people, however, it was part of the job. We did have a few "sky cops" at my airline, but they were by far the minority.

 

[iflyhigh]

The company rides the FA to do their jobs, so that the passenger who refuses to secure the seatbelt and is subsequently hurt and tries to sue will not have a basis for the suit. Remember when a person hurts themselves on board an aircraft, after being told to remain seated for turbulance, they run and sue they airline. In turn the airline goes to the crew to make sure they followed the rules, if they didn't they are probably discipilined in some manner.

We as people today are not responsible for our actions.

 

[MQAAord]

We are subject to personal fines if observed by the FAA to not be compliant with FAA regulations, and subject to company discipline. Yes, there are those F/As who do seem to really enjoy being bossy, but for the most part it's just us doing what the company and the FAA tell US to do. Did you know that F/As are required by FAA procedures to be seated immediatly after completing all safety checks? No dilly-dallying in the galley, no setting up galley equipment (it's not safety related!), etc. Reading magazines while seated in the jumpseat is also a big no-no.

Decades ago, there were not the restrictions on tray tables, seat backs & stowage of carry on items. Then there were incidents where people died because their egress in the evacuation was hindered by seatbacks being reclined, tray tables being out and luggage underfoot. There's an old book titled "Airline Safety is a Myth", written by an old TWA pilot by the name of Vernon Lowell (I think). My kids are crawling all over me and I'm having enough trouble just typing this let alone escape to get upstairs, find the book, and check the spelling of that author's name. Anyway, I got this small paperback at Oshkosh several years ago, and was a bit put off by the title, until I read it through. It really is a very good read if you can get a copy. It talks a lot about how the safety procedures that we know as 'normal' today came about.

If you feel the F/A's attitude that you're dealing with is out of control or out of line, by all means say something to pro standards (if you're an employee) or write a letter to the airline (if you're a passenger). But, keep in mind that they are probably just asking you to play by the rules.

 

[FN FAL]

Why are US airlines (by way of their flight attendants) so anal about Seatbelts and Seatbacks.

Is it more safety than litigation?

I just don't understand the passion with which these FAs go after passengers whose seats are just a little reclined during landing or the seatbelt not fastened.

I have not had similar experiences on International Carriers including VS, BA, QF and Cathay.

Look at it this way, if you don't don't have your seat belt on and the plane over-runs the runway on landing and you get knocked out cold, I'm sure that after the plane bursts into flames, that the heat of fire will erase the evidence of the foot print I left on your back when I made my safe egress.

 

[Spooky 1]

From Day 1 in our Initial Training we are told that the FAA can and will fine us into bankruptcy if we are cited for failing to enforce FARs. Further, we are also subject to company discipline for failing to properly secure the cabin. There are of course a percentage who derive pleasure from telling others what to do...they are the minority. Most of us hate fussing at adults like they are 2 year olds but, the fact of the matter is.....just like pilots...we have rules we are expected to follow and failure to do so can put our jobs on the line. In the end...how hard is it to put up the seat or put on a seatbelt? It only takes two seconds and saves both of us some aggrivation.

I'm amazed to hear from a SWA flight attendant as if there was ever an airline that seems to gloss over the seat back issue, SWA is it.

 

[PHXFLYR]

It is definitely a little of both - safety and litigation - plus FARs. As FAs, you never want to do anything, just as pilots, to go against FARS, as it could result in litigation, safety or FAA fines.

The seat back issue is important. In the case of an incident / accident, you would be blocking the person behind you from evacuating the aircraft.

When the seat belt sign is turned on, whether prior to takeoff, during flight, or on landing, FAs are required to conduct a compliance check. Anyone not in compliance has to be told. Once they have been told, and choose not to comply, then it is out of the FA's hands.

I never enjoyed hounding people, however, it was part of the job. We did have a few "sky cops" at my airline, but they were by far the minority.

Maybe it was in the" Mike and Ed" days but you got quite a few today that
just about brow beat these people into submission. Sure glad I get my tickets for free because I sure would be p.o'ed if I had bought one and were treated like that. EMBARASSING!!


PHXFLYR

 

[SWAInflt]

I'm amazed to hear from a SWA flight attendant as if there was ever an airline that seems to gloss over the seat back issue, SWA is it.

I assume your point is that in your experience SWA Flight Attendants have been lax in enforcing the FAR requiring all seats be upgright and locked for taxi, takeoff and landing. As both a working and commuter Flight Attendant, I have not personally observed such a trend.

I enforce the FAR, the people I fly with enforce the FAR. However, sometimes the passengers flat out ignore us but what can we do??...we have responsibility with no authority to back it up.

Imagine a cop having to hit the streets and his only method of law enforcement is to say "Pretty Please" and when that doesn't work using..."Because I said so" as a recourse.

If we report a pax who fails to comply to the CA and have them removed we are branded as overreacting maniacs who are just on a power trip. If we don't force the pax to comply we're ignoring the rules and slacking off on the job. We can't win.

We can inform, we cannot however enforce. It sucks but hey, that's the job. If you see Flight Attendants failing to secure the cabin...feel free to speak up. The slackers make us all look bad.

 

[Spooky 1]

I assume your point is that in your experience SWA Flight Attendants have been lax in enforcing the FAR requiring all seats be upgright and locked to taxi, takeoff and landing. As both a working and commuter Flight Attendant, I have not personally observed such a trend.

I enforce the FAR, the people I fly with enforce the FAR. However, sometimes the passengers flat out ignore us but what can we do??...we have responsibility with no authority to back it up.

Imagine a cop having to hit the streets and his only method of law enforcement is to say "Pretty Please" and when that doesn't work using..."Because I said so" as a recourse. We can inform, we cannot however enforce. It sucks but hey, that's the job. If you see Flight Attendants failing to secure the cabin...feel free to speak up. The slackers make us all look bad.

Your reply is well taken. Thanks!

 

[Carl_Spackler]

I'm sure the FAA can impose personal fines if the want, but has anyone ever heard of someone getting a personal fine? They might fine the company, and the company will pay a greatly reduced fine and promise to fix the problem.

As far as fining a company in to BK, if that were to happen (BK by fines alone), it would have to be the most dangerous airline in history.