FAPA - the ball is in your court.

Afixedwing

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You are steering the race to the bottom at this moment. Will you give Bedford the Scope relief he is asking for if the alternative is liquidation? If you guys bend over, you're worse than the RAH pilots that will pick up the 190 flying if you cave.
 

CitationLover

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You are steering the race to the bottom at this moment. Will you give Bedford the Scope relief he is asking for if the alternative is liquidation? If you guys bend over, you're worse than the RAH pilots that will pick up the 190 flying if you cave.
So easy from the outside looking in.

Midwest pilots HELD THE LINE and REFUSED draconian pay cuts to RAH levels. 75% of us paid the ultimate price and were furloughed. Those pay cuts will now be forced on us through the elimination of our fleet and integration into RAH.
 

Afixedwing

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So easy from the outside looking in.

Midwest pilots HELD THE LINE and REFUSED draconian pay cuts to RAH levels. 75% of us paid the ultimate price and were furloughed. Those pay cuts will now be forced on us through the elimination of our fleet and integration into RAH.
What kind of scope protection did you have in place?
 

UND_Sioux

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You are steering the race to the bottom at this moment. Will you give Bedford the Scope relief he is asking for if the alternative is liquidation? If you guys bend over, you're worse than the RAH pilots that will pick up the 190 flying if you cave.

I think you are missing the point. RAH will have Frontier under under its umbrella soon. At some point, the lists will be combined and when that happens, RAH can fly 190s, 195s, 747s, etc... under the Frontier name so long as they put them on the Republic certificate or on the Frontier certificate. He doesn't need to get around scope.

The issue is that until a combined list happens, RAH has to honor Frontier's CBA, and thus, honor their scope. That's why he is asking for scope relief. The 190s are coming either way.
 

Afixedwing

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I think you are missing the point. RAH will have Frontier under under its umbrella soon. At some point, the lists will be combined and when that happens, RAH can fly 190s, 195s, 747s, etc... under the Frontier name so long as they put them on the Republic certificate or on the Frontier certificate. He doesn't need to get around scope.

The issue is that until a combined list happens, RAH has to honor Frontier's CBA, and thus, honor their scope. That's why he is asking for scope relief. The 190s are coming either way.
I am not missing the point. He made the scope relief a condition of the acquisition. FAPA has some leverage at the moment.
 

CitationLover

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I am not missing the point. He made the scope relief a condition of the acquisition. FAPA has some leverage at the moment.
The have all the leverage of a bankrupt pilot group with another 1113(c) hearing looming if need be.

That ain't much.........
 

Afixedwing

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The have all the leverage of a bankrupt pilot group with another 1113(c) hearing looming if need be.

That ain't much.........
They have the leverage to thwart Bedford's plan.
He plans to get "scope relief" from the F9 pilots, bring in E190s at RAH, sell 51% of F9 to Wexford (thus no seniority list integration), and the whipsaw is in place. The perfect workaround for RAH's scope clause, which currently limits him.
 

CitationLover

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They have the leverage to thwart Bedford's plan.
He plans to get "scope relief" from the F9 pilots, bring in E190s at RAH, sell 51% of F9 to Wexford (thus no seniority list integration), and the whipsaw is in place. The perfect workaround for RAH's scope clause, which currently limits him.
or he can use 1113(c) to impose whatever he wants before acquiring the airline.
 

TWA Dude

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you guys bend over, you're worse than the RAH pilots that will pick up the 190 flying if you cave.
You preach as if you know how to save this profession but in fact YOU'RE a bigger threat than anyone else. You sanctimoniously presume to tell others to give up ther jobs but you just don't get it: pilots flying for a bankrupt airline have no leverage. If Frontier goes tango uniform Bedford just shrugs his shoulders and moves on. The Republic pilots have nothing to do with any of this.
 

Afixedwing

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You preach as if you know how to save this profession but in fact YOU'RE a bigger threat than anyone else. You sanctimoniously presume to tell others to give up ther jobs but you just don't get it: pilots flying for a bankrupt airline have no leverage. If Frontier goes tango uniform Bedford just shrugs his shoulders and moves on. The Republic pilots have nothing to do with any of this.
The jacobs-ladder continues, and "job preservation" is the attitude that allows it to to so. I doubt RAH will walk away from his investment and "shrug its shoulders".
The point of my post wasn't so much to suggest F9 pilots throw themselves on the grenade, it was to bring RAH's plan to light - and that plan is a whipsaw.
 

GuppyWN

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You guys are assuming that nobody will outbid Republic.

Gup
 

starchkr

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Bring on those higher bidders...anyone....anyone...
 

TWA Dude

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You guys are assuming that nobody will outbid Republic.
Sorry to be a downer but if there was another interested party we would've heard about it already. This is likely Frontier's only chance to exit Chapter 11.
 

TWA Dude

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I doubt RAH will walk away from his investment and "shrug its shoulders".
I didn't mean RAH would walk away voluntarily. I meant if the Frontier pilots draw a line in the sand and sink the airline Bedford won't cry himself to sleep. The pilots have more to lose than he does.
The point of my post wasn't so much to suggest F9 pilots throw themselves on the grenade, it was to bring RAH's plan to light - and that plan is a whipsaw.
Airline managment behaves like airline management. That much is no surprise. The Chautauqua pilot did a good job handling the whipsaw when when Republic started so we can hope they deal with Frontier (and Midwest) equally well. I hope.
 

Newf Dog

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TWA Dude,

you say "if there were another interested party we'd have heard about it by now" or something like that.

No way, dude. You need to operate in the corporate world for a while. Been there done that. You're right in that capital is tight. Nobody in their right mind outside the airline world would give F9 a penny right now.

Inside the airline world...it's another story. This is a steal for LUV plus they need to protect their backside. Giving up A concourse to another set of clowns would be bad for them. LUV is not doing all that great in Denver but they are playing for the long run which is both A) a smart move and B) pretty much a guarenteed winner for them. It's a waiting game and the odds are stacked in their favor

The entire F9 organization would be a perfect fit for LUV. Highly motivated employees with the LUV attitude and a Denver feel.

jetBlue would also be a winner.

The thing is, when you play the bidding game, you let everybody show their hand. You already know what it's worth to you and how much you're willing to pay. You hang out and wait and bluff the crap out of everybody. The smart players know how to play this game very, very well.

If Frontier is worth anything to somebody they won't show up until late. If nobody shows...I guess we'll find out how good Bedford is at empire building.
 
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TWA Dude

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you say "if there were another interested party we'd have heard about it by now" or something like that. No way, dude.
My experience comes from the TWA Chapter 11. AA bought TWA out of bankruptcy. There was an auction with Carl Icahn's slimy attorney and a third party involved. Both entities made themselves known very early on. Through the process of due diligence we knew that third party was a crackpot and irrelevent. Have any other parties done due diligence on Frontier? It's not a secret.
 
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