FAPA (F9) question

[arjayeffo]

I think the underlying fear here is not becoming F9's b!tch, but what exactly are Bedford's plans for F9 in the airline industry and how will it indirectly affect other pilots in the industry. The last thing we need now as pilots, is F9 being whipsawed against the other pilots of Republic who fly for much less.

And I sincerely couldn't agree more on all points. Even if we succeed, and ruin the ending of ShearedShaft's double feature, it will be decades before we were any kind of threat to SWA.

So as to your point about the whipsaw aspect, that is why I began the thread answer with the 'theoretical' job protection statement, and why I have been a proponent of integration from the beginning. I recognize this as a very good answer to my question. Much better than, "I can't wait for you to crash and burn because you didn't choose me for the prom."

 

[runwayjockey]

Preserving the market against other airlines that aren't too proud to swoop in and take advantage of Midwest's drawdowns either.

self-right⋅eous

–adjective confident of one's own righteousness, esp. when smugly moralistic and intolerant of the opinions and behavior of others.

Synonyms:
arjayeffo

 

[Dan Roman]

F9 is nothing more than a pawn on Bedford's chessboard. To say that F9 pilots are not benefiting from the demise of YX is not only an injustice to the former pilots of YX it's a flat out lie. Mr. Romans, who my question was originally directed at, speaks to great length about his dissaproval of SWA's actions in attempting to purchase F9. From his point of view "SWA would be growing another city (DEN) at the expense of a good airline". Yet this is exactly what F9 has done in MKE by having their pilots fly Midwest flights. Why the double standard?

Just to be clear, I didn't say anything about disapproval of SWA attempting to buy F9. If a deal could have been made that made both sides happy (I know, I know, impossible) fine. The point is that a deal wasn't made, for whatever reason. So be it. There are a few SWA guys acting like ass's.
SWA is NOT the hot girl at the prom, none of us are. The only constant is change. PanAm and TWA were two of the top airlines in the 1960's, Braniff was the most profitable in the 1970's, Eastern the biggest in the 1980's and United was the "hot girl at the prom" in the 1990's.
The simple fact is it's all a crapshoot, and to go around thinking F9 made a mistake by not jumping on SWA's offer is arrogant and stupid. None of us knows how they will do, but I happen to think F9 has a good chance of being a very strong carrier and growing on their own. You can't fault them for that. They certainly have the hometown advantage. UAL may be hurting, but anything could happen. They still have strong feed and may merge with CO. I would think right now SWA is in third place in DEN and may or may not succeed. Big deal, they do well in lots of other places.

 

[arjayeffo]

self-right⋅eous

–adjective confident of one's own righteousness, esp. when smugly moralistic and intolerant of the opinions and behavior of others.

Synonyms:
arjayeffo

Guess you posted that before you read my last post. Oh well.

 

[runwayjockey]

Just to be clear, I didn't say anything about disapproval of SWA attempting to buy F9. If a deal could have been made that made both sides happy (I know, I know, impossible) fine. The point is that a deal wasn't made, for whatever reason. So be it. There are a few SWA guys acting like ass's.
SWA is NOT the hot girl at the prom, none of us are. The only constant is change. PanAm and TWA were two of the top airlines in the 1960's, Braniff was the most profitable in the 1970's, Eastern the biggest in the 1980's and United was the "hot girl at the prom" in the 1990's.
The simple fact is it's all a crapshoot, and to go around thinking F9 made a mistake by not jumping on SWA's offer is arrogant and stupid. None of us knows how they will do, but I happen to think F9 has a good chance of being a very strong carrier and growing on their own. You can't fault them for that. They certainly have the hometown advantage. UAL may be hurting, but anything could happen. They still have strong feed and may merge with CO. I would think right now SWA is in third place in DEN and may or may not succeed. Big deal, they do well in lots of other places.

Agree.

Best of luck!

 

[Dan Roman]

Apologies to Mr. Roman as I step in again. F9 starts flying out of MKE on the day that the Midwest 717's leave. We didn't have anything to do with that (we're just pawns, right?).
Midwest is taking part in the beginnings of integration talks with all the rest of us. I'm sure that you would prefer we at Frontier refuse to fly these routes on principle just at the exact same time Southwest enters the market.
I believe that eventually an arbitrator will place Midwest pilots on the new seniority list, and that some of them will come back to work. And I am even man enough to admit that a lot of the Midwest pilots deserve to go in front of me on that list. So I don't view it as growing anything at their expense, only keeping the seats warm for their return. Preserving the market against other airlines that aren't too proud to swoop in and take advantage of Midwest's drawdowns either.

No apologies neccessary, good post.
As you well know we are all pawns of corporate decisions. You are right about the difference as well as I don't see any F9 guys going around making up songs about kicking Midwests ass.
The simple fact is we can't control what goes on at the corporate level, but we can treat fellow pilots or pilot groups with respect. We're all better off when we do that and we are all worse off when we stoop to the "my airline is better than your airline" crap

 

[Dan Roman]

Agree.

Best of luck!

Thanks! the funny thing is, it's very easy to misunderstand someones posts on here. We are pilots, not writers. The reality is, people who battle each other on here would probably find a whole different person if they met face to face on a layover. I would bet even Gen Lee would be good beer drinking company on layover with any of the SWA folks here!

 

[runwayjockey]

Guess you posted that before you read my last post. Oh well.

I read your post. Talk is cheap!

Give up your seat on the bus for a guy at YX and I'll eat my words and buy ya beer. Until then get off the soapbox!

Best of luck!

 

[arjayeffo]

I admit that a lot of Midwest guys deserve to go ahead of me on the seniority list, and you accuse me of being self-righteous.

I agree 100% with your points in a post and you accuse me of being intolerant to the opinions of others.

Anything I say which might be constructive, is just 'cheap talk'.

And the only way I can get a beer from you, is by doing something that is impossible as far as I know.

I submit. I have no response to your logic. Argument conceded.

Best of luck to all

 

[runwayjockey]

I admit that a lot of Midwest guys deserve to go ahead of me on the seniority list, and you accuse me of being self-righteous.

I agree 100% with your points in a post and you accuse me of being intolerant to the opinions of others.

Anything I say which might be constructive, is just 'cheap talk'.

And the only way I can get a beer from you, is by doing something that is impossible as far as I know.

I submit. I have no response to your logic. Argument conceded.

Best of luck to all

This industry sucks! I'll buy you a beer anyway!