Families of Pilots Killed File Lawsuit

[Dennis Miller]

Families of Pilots Killed File Lawsuit
Wednesday January 11, 7:29 pm ET
By Chris Blank, Associated Press Writer

Families of Pilots Killed in Pinnacle Airlines Regional Jet Crash Sue Plane's Maker

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) -- The families of two pilots killed when their regional jet crashed into a neighborhood have filed wrongful death lawsuits against the plane's maker, an airline, three part makers and a maintenance company.


Jesse Rhodes and Richard Peter Cesarz were ferrying a Pinnacle Airlines CJR-200 regional jet from Little Rock, Ark., to Minneapolis in October 2004 when they reported engine failure. The plane crashed in a residential area in Jefferson City, but no one on the ground was injured.

The lawsuits, filed in Broward County, Fla., Tuesday by the South Carolina law firm Motley Rice LLC, allege that heat damage in the engine, caused by a faulty oil pump, were among the problems making it impossible for the pilots to restart the engines.

A spokeswoman for General Electric Co. -- the maker of the pump -- said Wednesday that the company is working with the Federal Aviation Authority and National Transportation Safety Board to try to determine what caused the crash.

"We can't really comment until we know what caused the crash," GE spokeswoman Deb Case said.

The pilots were the only people aboard the 50-seat regional jet, which they were taking to Minneapolis. Pinnacle Airlines Inc., based in Memphis, Tenn., is a regional carrier for Northwest Airlines Corp.

According to a transcript from the cockpit voice recorder released during public hearings in June, 10 minutes after Rhodes and Cesarz pushed the plane to its maximum altitude of 41,000 feet, the pilots reported to air traffic controllers in Kansas City that they had lost engine power.

Lawyers for the families contend GE hid problems with the type of oil pump in the plane from the builder, Montreal-based Bombardier Aerospace Corp., which is also named in the lawsuit, along with its parent company, Bombardier Inc. The resulting heat damage from the low oil pressure prevented the blades of the jet engine from turning, the lawsuit said.

Case declined to comment on specific allegations in the lawsuits but said the type of engine on the plane has "an outstanding safety record." She said there is no record of the blades locking while in flight associated with the type of engine that was in the plane.

In a news release, J.B. Harris, an attorney with Motley Rice, said regional carriers have systemic difficulties that need to be corrected. Bert Cruickshank, a spokesman for Bombardier, said the company's airplanes follow the same oversight procedures as the planes for major carriers. Bombardier was cleared of negligence last year for the death of professional golfer Payne Stewart in a 1999 crash in one of its jets. Maintenance company Parker Hannifin Corp., part makers Honeywell International and KGS Electronics, and Northwest Airlines are also named as defendants.

In a statement, Northwest Airlines declined any responsibility for the crash. Representatives from Honeywell, Parker Hannifin and KGS did not immediately return calls seeking comment Wednesday.

Weren't these the guys who flew too high?

 

[A350]

I know what the lawyers for Bombardier and GE are going to say about this......

You can't build an airplane that a pilot can't wreck.

A350

 

[CA1900]

Just unbelievable. They caused the crash. The plane warned them with the stick-shaker, and tried to force corrective action with the stick-pusher, which they overrode. This is Bombardier's error how? Are we going to have to electrify the control yoke to keep hands off of it during a stick-push?

 

[TWA Dude]

Even if the pilots bear responsibility for getting into the stall condition what actually killed them was the inability of the engines to restart. I think GE is gonna end up paying for that.

 

[gkrangers]

How many miles could they glide from 410 at best glide ?

 

[pilot141]

Didn't these guys end up finally making 410 at something like 164 KIAS?

I understand what the families are doing here, but they must realize that if you try hard enough you CAN put an airplane into an unrecoverable situation.

We have to be careful that lawyers don't do to commercial aviation what they once did to private aviation. If GE is held responsible for causing this crash after these guys went to FL 410 at stick-shaker speed then don't be surprised when GE stops making jet engines. (They are an enormous global corporation - if the jet engine business becomes a drain they will jettison it). Then Rolls-Royce gets sued, then Pratt and soon you have no one willing to take the risk of making engines.

Not the mechanical risk, mind you, but the LEGAL risk.

This is a dangerous road.....

 

[canyonblue]

This is a dangerous road.....

I agree. Next thing you know, engines will cost 30M each. And you know how the airlines are going to get the money to pay for that increase.

 

[FedExFlyer]

Welcome to the good ole' USA where individuals like to take responsibility for their actions.......................NOT!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[C425Driver]

Even if the pilots bear responsibility for getting into the stall condition what actually killed them was the inability of the engines to restart. I think GE is gonna end up paying for that.

One engine was melted because is had no airflow in the stall and the internal temps went off the scale. The other didn't restart because they botched the restart procedure.

C425Driver

 

[Draginass]

You guys don't get it. It doesn't matter whose "fault" it was, or if anyone was at fault at all. These shyster lawyers, with their 80% contingency fees and by perverting the intent of the legal system, are going after the deep pockets in hopes that the companies named will "settle" for a reduced amount just to avoid the litigation costs.

 

[jimcav]

Yeah blame it on the motors. I have a good idea, I'll sue Miller and Budweiser because I'm getting fat. Maybe the local pizza shop too while I'm at it.

 

[SWA GUY]

Same thing happens to drug manufacturors. Pretty soon we'll have no drugs to fight illnesses becase the shyster lawyers have sued every drug company into bankruptcy.

Care to guess which political party is run by the American Trial Lawyers Association? Yep, the Dems. I mean the Liberals.

 

[TWA Dude]

The other didn't restart because they botched the restart procedure.C425Driver

Perhaps I missed something but I read the report and it seemed that they attemped an APU start within the normal envelope. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

 

[Corbon]

And more lawyers contribute to the downward spiral of America. These lawsuits that blame anybody and everybody but the person(s) responsible for their screw ups gets my blood boiling.
You're a clumsy oaf and spill hot coffee on your crotch? That's not your fault, it's McDonalds. They must pay. Not only for that but because you also ate four Big Macs with fries every day for 30 years then then had a massive heart attack. That isn't your fault, after all, how were you supposed to know fried grease is bad for ya? Make sure if you die that your surviving family members also sue the hospital for not saving your life, even though you ignored every warning sign and when it finally hit, every single artery was so clogged it would have taken a heavy duty DeWalt and a few drill bits to clear them out.
Oh, and your son who also eats McDonalds every day after school because you're too lazy to make nutritious food for him is now a big fat lard with diabetes who can't get a date to the prom because he's morbidly obese deserves a few million also, because who knew that would happen?

Then this same son comes home after school with his Big Macs and fries, gobbles them up then sits down in front of Grand Theft Auto every day and suddenly realizes he wants to go shoot people. So he finds daddys pistol and pops a few people. His defense? "The video games made me do it. I didnt know it was wrong." So momma shows up on TV crying, saying her son is a good kid and if not for those video games and guns he wouldnt have done that, so we'll sue Rockstar and Smith & Wesson because THEY are the ones who did it. Not poor little Tommy. He's the victim.

You get lung cancer after 25 years of smoking 3 packs of Marlboro Reds a day, filling your lungs with enough smoke to block out the sun for a small country and you sue the tobacco companies because you didn't know it was bad for you?

The list goes on and on and on.............

I guess the lesson learned is being a complete idiot with no common sense can pay pretty well. But it's not about the money, right?

 

[Capi_Cafre']

Families of Pilots Killed in Pinnacle Airlines Regional Jet Crash Sue Plane's Maker

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) -- The families of two pilots killed when their regional jet crashed into a neighborhood have filed wrongful death lawsuits against the plane's maker, an airline, three part makers and a maintenance company.

They might as well sue Charles Darwin's estate too. He's the one that came up with Natural Selection, and that's what actually killed these guys.

 

[P-Dawg_QX]

They might as well sue Charles Darwin's estate as well. He's the one that came up with Natural Selection, and that's what actually killed these guys.

Hehe...nice.

 

[wmuflyguy]

P-dawg
Great avatar

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Perhaps I missed something but I read the report and it seemed that they attemped an APU start within the normal envelope. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

From what I read they even screwed that part up.

I think all the families are going to accomplish with this lawsuit is to further drag their loved ones reputations through the mud. Even non pilots can read the CVR transcript and see gross errors and negligence in that one.

 

[BushwickBill]

Same thing happens to drug manufacturors. Pretty soon we'll have no drugs to fight illnesses becase the shyster lawyers have sued every drug company into bankruptcy.

Care to guess which political party is run by the American Trial Lawyers Association? Yep, the Dems. I mean the Liberals.

Dude how the hell did you turn this into partisan? I mean thats fairly out there. All kinds of people want money they don't have to earn.

 

[Dan Roman]

If your going to go down that road make sure you acknowledge that the Republican party is the party responsible for Billions of dollars going from the pockets of the American workers into a few CEO's and top executive's pockets.

 

[michael707767]

Yeah blame it on the motors. I have a good idea, I'll sue Miller and Budweiser because I'm getting fat. Maybe the local pizza shop too while I'm at it.

its amazing but people have done that. Sued fast food places because they are getting fat eating there.

 

[maru657]

Notwithstanding the viability of the lawsuit. That's the reason we courts. However, lawsuits didn't kill general aviation. General aviation manufactuers died in the US for the same reason GM and Ford are in trouble. A bad product and giving up too much market share to foriegn competitors. There's a reason Embraer has so much market share in the US now, mergers and Boeing sitting on there hands. Trial lawyers aren't the problem with Enron and "Kenny Boy". If we are not going to be allowed to sue, can we shoot the rotten so and so's?

 

[A350]

From what I read, they caused the melting of the one ( I can't remember which one) engines hot section. They were still looking at why the other one wouldn't turn. I read the ITT peaked at like 2200 degrees.

They put the airplane in a place where they were lucky the engines were running at all. When they quit, they stalled the airplane. They spent time trying to restart the engines way outside the start envelope, they didn't tell ATC they lost both engines till they were like at 15000 feet. They switched seats at 10000 feet. They never decided to go to a suitable field until it was too late.

Further, they didn't know that what they were doing was wrong.

Now if I missed anything......let me know. I know that GE and Bombardier don't make perfect products. But lets call a spade a spade here. Even ALPA, whose motto is SAFETY, has no business backing up the behavior that was exibited. But they will. And some lawyer will take the case just to get a name for himself.

In the end, we still have the tragedy. What 10 minutes of extra ground school could have taught these guys.

A350

 

[miles otoole]

GE should sue the parents for giving birth to these two morons.

 

[LJDRVR]

Even if the pilots bear responsibility for getting into the stall condition what actually killed them was the inability of the engines to restart. I think GE is gonna end up paying for that.

The engines were unable to start because these guys did not shove the nose over sufficiently to get enough airflow. They sat there playing cover-their-butts, never realizing that when the engines flame out and you get the shaker at 410 your life is in immediate danger. Next time you have a PC, ask the instructor to try this. Let us know what pitch attitude it will take to obtain sufficient smash for the in-flight relight. (Should be in the neighborhood of 30 degrees.)

Draginass hit the nail on the head. All part of the cost of doing business. This one will settle out of court for not a lot. (They have no case)

 

[Dangerkitty]

Notwithstanding the viability of the lawsuit. That's the reason we courts. However, lawsuits didn't kill general aviation. General aviation manufactuers died in the US for the same reason GM and Ford are in trouble. A bad product and giving up too much market share to foriegn competitors. There's a reason Embraer has so much market share in the US now, mergers and Boeing sitting on there hands. Trial lawyers aren't the problem with Enron and "Kenny Boy". If we are not going to be allowed to sue, can we shoot the rotten so and so's?

I have to chime in here.

You totally lost me on that statement above that you just made. Boeing and Embraer have nothing to do with General Aviation. They both manufactor aircraft used in Commercial and Military ops.

Secondly, Embraer doesn't have anywhere near the market share of Boeing. The EMB-145's are about to be dropped like a hot potato and the company is hanging their whole business on the hopes that the E-170 and the E-190 will work. Boeing on the other hand developed and continues the build the most popular airliner in the world. The B-737. Saying that Embraer has more market share over Boeing is just a flat out wrong uneducated statement. It also has absolutely nothing to do with General Aviation.

Finally the US made General Aviation aircraft are far from substandard. Thats why you see thousands of Pipers, Cessnas, and Beechcraft when you are in Europe.

Have you even flown general aviation aircraft?

 

[Captain X]

Even if the pilots bear responsibility for getting into the stall condition what actually killed them was the inability of the engines to restart. I think GE is gonna end up paying for that.

I think it's funny how "they" came out and said that "pilots were not aware of the Core Lock phenomenon and the potential for complete seizure of an engine, blah, blah....., " but every single turbine engine I have operated (8 different types) have ALL had cool down limitations for the very reason of avoiding the potential to "core lock" the turbine blades.

One would think that if a turbine engine was operating a full thrust in one of the harshest environments in the world that when, all of a sudden, it takes a crap the same rules of physics and thermodynamics would apply.

 

[AvroJockey]

I think it's funny how "they" came out and said that "pilots were not aware of the Core Lock phenomenon and the potential for complete seizure of an engine, blah, blah....., " but every single turbine engine I have operated (8 different types) have ALL had cool down limitations for the very reason of avoiding the potential to "core lock" the turbine blades.

One would think that if a turbine engine was operating a full thrust in one of the harshest environments in the world that when, all of a sudden, it takes a shoot the same rules of physics and thermodynamics would apply.

I wonder if GE will check to see if either of them took the FEX written test, because this is one of the questions. It's funny that core lock is a unknown phenomenon, when it's on a FAA written test, and a limitation on many jet engines!

What makes me sick is that ALPA is trying to defned these two! They are doing a grave disservice to all the highly skilled pilots in this industry by deflecting the spotlight off the real cause.

If this continues, half of us are going to loose our jobs to that dog that is supposed to bite us anytime we touch anything.

 

[kevdog]

They might as well sue Charles Darwin's estate as well. He's the one that came up with Natural Selection, and that's what actually killed these guys.

Glad to see Darwinism still works. I think the courts will too.

 

[A350]

I have to disagree that these two guys were morons.....that is a little harsh.

They were ignorant that what they were doing was outside the envelope......

The only people to blame for that is Pinnacle's training department curriculum, and we all know who approved that. Good luck getting $$$ out of Uncle Sam.

Let us not forget that they paid for their ignorance with their lives. However, this may end up saving lives in the future....therefore they didn't die for nothing.

A350