Falsifying his logbook, what do i do?!

[Cpt. Underpants]

Eventually, an airline will realize when a "1,000hr" pilot flies like a 200 hour pilot.

I have experience of this, and was responsible for the audit of the individuals hours and subsequent termination (from Cathay). Good riddance to bad rubbish.

 

[The_Russian]

There is a third person. That is you, telling everyone that the person who does the right thing is a rat. The third party has an influence.

He is a rat if he does the right thing in an unprofessional manner. Once again, I really don't think you are reading what I am writing here.

Making a mistake and lieing are 2 different things. Maybe I was raised differently than you but when I make a mistake I own up to it, and I sure as hell don't lie about my flight time.

You have no idea how pilot A had the motivation to come to the conclusion that falsifying his logbook is an OK thing to do. Maybe an instructor of his told him it was cool to do and he listened. That is why it is important to speak to him directly and professionally to see if the problem could be corrected early. If the problem cannot be corrected face to face, then you can feel OK about going to the Feds.

If you wake up and pay attention you would know that on my first post I suggested that he give his friend the option of fixing his logbook or being turned in.

I never once questioned your input into his situation. What I did question was your critique of my post that was out of context and insulting.

I don't know Dcramer and I really don't give a crap about what he did. This is about you being an advocate for pilots to turn a blind eye to people that should be disciplined. This is all fine until someone is hurt or killed, that is extreme but still possible.

Once again, you take my post out of context and put words in my mouth. In no way am I an advocate for falsifying logbook entries by airmen. What I am an advocate of is acting as a professional. If you expect the pilot who is making false entries in his logbook to be truthful and professional, so should you. Especially if this person is your friend. Friendship is a two way street. It is not your friend who has to be good to you. You have to be good to them to. Once again, treat your fellow professional airmen with the respect they deserve. If he does not return the respect thereafter, then he will receive an appropriate punishment.

But, oh well it's ok if people die just as long as noones a rat. COME ON!!!

Not once did I imply or suggest that.

I would never include someone who lies about their times as a freind. This is an act of an extremely dishonest person.

Sure it is. And it would show your low level of trust and integrity as a friend, airmen, and human being if you didn't try to handle it internally prior to pulling the trigger on him.

Have you ever worked alongside someone who runs to the FAA with every little thing that a pilot does wrong? I have. I'll tell you it sucks. Many of my friends have violations and LOIs because of this person. He has ruined their careers just because he feels he should do whats "right". If he was a real man, he would pull these pilots into his office and talk to them about their mistakes, not throw them under the bus. This is a serious character issue. It is much worse of a character flaw than the person who actually is committing the violation. Even if that person is violating the regs on purpose, at least these people can be helped.

Once a person is a scab or a rat, they never go back. Their righteousness exceeds their limited Earthly presence. Would you like to fly next to this person. Keep in mind that you cannot trust this person anymore than the pilot who falsifies his logbook entries.

 

[The_Russian]

I have experience of this, and was responsible for the audit of the individuals hours and subsequent termination (from Cathay). Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Tell us more. What was the process of the audit?

 

[Hollywood82]

What are you even talking about Russian? You talk so much and are so unclear about so many things you don't even make sense. I'm not sure but I think you are saying the same thing as what I origionaly posted, but putting a different twist on it.

The simple version: Pilot A tells pilot B about falsifying his logbook. Pilot B should give his buddy the option of fixing it or being turned in. Quick, fair, and simple, noone's a rat, and pilot B did the right thing.

Yes everyone makes mistakes, but there is an obvious difference between a busting an altitude and lieing in your logbook. One is intentional. And those people are the scum of the earth!

Tell me where you disagree Russian? And if you could, please do so in less than 3 paragraphs.

 

[rbav8r]

Wait unitl he fails training at his new airline because his flying skills don't match his logbook. Then he will have to explain why he couldn't get through training to the next airline that he tries to get hired at.

 

[Cpt. Underpants]

Tell us more. What was the process of the audit?

I'd rather not - an inside knowledge of the processes used to determine fraud would only encourage those that would be inclined to cheat in future. I will say that it was a lengthy process that involved almost full-time dedication to the task (for a few weeks) as well as several visits to claimed former employers.

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

um, ok? You don't think this is a big deal? Do you have friends that do this? Do you lie about times?

Anyone who has half a brain could tell you this is pretty low.

You seem passionate about this subject, and I admire
that, but you really need to let it go. There will be
fraud in any industry. If you see it, report it, that's it.

I see lying, cheating, inside jobs, and outright
injustices all over aviation. That IS life. Many of
them WILL get away with it and a few will get
caught.

Don't let yourself become the McCarthy of aviation
times. It will likely be counter productive.

CE

 

[The_Russian]

You seem passionate about this subject, and I admire
that, but you really need to let it go. There will be
fraud in any industry. If you see it, report it, that's it.

I see lying, cheating, inside jobs, and outright
injustices all over aviation. That IS life. Many of
them WILL get away with it and a few will get
caught.

Don't let yourself become the McCarthy of aviation
times. It will likely be counter productive.

CE

Very well said CE. You always have done nice work.

 

[Hollywood82]

You seem passionate about this subject, and I admire
that, but you really need to let it go. There will be
fraud in any industry. If you see it, report it, that's it.

I see lying, cheating, inside jobs, and outright
injustices all over aviation. That IS life. Many of
them WILL get away with it and a few will get
caught.

Don't let yourself become the McCarthy of aviation
times. It will likely be counter productive.

CE

Thanks for the advice. I do feel strongly about this. Years ago I lost a job due to someone having more flight time than me. He lied in his logbook and I knew it at the time. I didn't want to be a rat and since I was 19 and he was 44 I was intimidated I went against my better judgement and didn't say anything. About 2 months later he parked a 177 in someones front yard nearly killing and hospitalizing several people. Poor ADM and a lack of piloting skills were the causes of the accident. A higher time , more experienced, honest pilot wouldn't have ended up in that situation.

So I hope you can see why I have a hard time letting this go. I say turn the lieing bastard into the feds, no excuse for that behavior. Sorry if I stepped on anyones toes, but I'm not gonna change my stance on this issue.

 

[Talian]

I knew many people who are now are airline captains who fudged some entries here and there. Unless its something ridiculus dont worry about it...
I worked at so many flight schools that went out of business you couldnt even contact anyone for a job reference yet checking flight times.
When I presented my logbook to the feds to verify my experience to take the ATP written they didnt even look at it.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

When I presented my logbook to the feds to verify my experience to take the ATP written they didnt even look at it.

That's cause they don't need to. You can take the ATP written without an endorsement or a feds approval. I think you mean your ATP ride?

 

[JAFI]

That's cause they don't need to. You can take the ATP written without an endorsement or a feds approval. I think you mean your ATP ride?

It depends on how old he/she is. Not long ago (20 some years) an ATP applicant had to go to the FSDO (as I recall, at the time they were called ACDO -Air Carrier District Office - or a GADO - General Aviation District Office) to have their log book reviewed by an Inspector before they were allowed to take the ATP written. You also had to have a 1st clas medical as I recall. I did this. I had plenty of time so it was a non event......

 

[mushroom]

I didn't know they stopped that whole "permission slip" process to take the written. I got my ATP in 1994 and still had to go to the FAA and get one then.