Falcon 7X

[Swass]

What do you guys think of the Falcon 7X? Do you think it will give the GLEX's and G550's a run? I don't know much about them or their prelim. numbers. They sure look sweet though.

Thoughts?

 

[TXDA2000]

I climbed all over it in LIT the other day. I liked most everything about it. The baggage door is a little weird, but the cockpit and cabin are fantastic. I don't know if it will give the other guys a run for their money, but it will probably do very will in it's own market.

I wish they'd get on with the 5X.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Its not designed to compete with either....its not a large cabin..in fact, its marginally bigger than a 900ex.

They are flying it 6000nm now and keeping it in the air 12+ hrs pretty easily at LRC (.80)..BUT the cabin is pretty F'n small for that IMHO. It will be an issue for long range operators. Where it makes the grade is for loyal Falcon owners (most are) who want to get home from Central Europe/Moscow/Istanbul etc...where they previously could not in their 900's...and yes, they are doing well, they have sold more than 100 as of about a year ago.

and no matter what a G-salesman tells ya.... -- its priced similar to a G450 - or about 8mil+ less than a 550 or a GLEX. Not in the same class.

I got to play in the sim recently and its going to be a LOT of fun to fly! --


oh, did I mention the small cabin???






PS - Swass my biatch, how ya been?

 

[Lear60Guy]

Its not designed to compete with either....
oh, did I mention the small cabin???

G-550
Height 6'2"
Width 7'4"
Length 50'1"

Falcon 7X
Height 6'2"
Width 7'8"
Length 39'1"

Global XRS
Height 6'3"
Width 8'2"
Length 48'4"

Other than the length they are all comparable, I would think most passengers care more about the cross section than the cabin length on long flights but I don't know... it is a lot shorter.... Most buyers will probably be the loyal falcon owners upgrading, I'm sure most gulfstream and GLEX owners will stick with their brand..

 

[mzaharis]

Prior discussion on the topic, if you want to review comments from then:

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=84178&highlight=Falcon

 

[Swass]

PS - Swass my biatch, how ya been?

My brutha I've been well, how are things up your way? Hope things are going good. BizzleDick. imp:

 

[rice]

G-550
Height 6'2"
Width 7'4"
Length 50'1"

Falcon 7X
Height 6'2"
Width 7'8"
Length 39'1"

Global XRS
Height 6'3"
Width 8'2"
Length 48'4"

I said it before and I'll say it again, Dassault screwed up IMO. Damn French think that the 900 cross-section is perfect and they're wrong. This is/was a clean sheet design and they had an outstanding opportunity to nail the current and future market(s) without a major design change. Simple answer is the 7X and all larger follow-on designs should have been 6'4" high and 8'0" wide. You can't tell me that those slightly enlarged numbers would have appreciably hurt the range/performance of the aircraft. It would also have been the perfect split between Gulfstream and Bombardier. Yeah the 7X is to short too but I'm sure the French will add 10' or so to the next version at about a million$/ft.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

G-550
Height 6'2"
Width 7'4"
Length 50'1"

Falcon 7X
Height 6'2"
Width 7'8"
Length 39'1"

Global XRS
Height 6'3"
Width 8'2"
Length 48'4"

Other than the length they are all comparable, I would think most passengers care more about the cross section than the cabin length on long flights but I don't know... it is a lot shorter.... Most buyers will probably be the loyal falcon owners upgrading, I'm sure most gulfstream and GLEX owners will stick with their brand..

no they do care! they care very much...

drop that 7X length down some also as most spec's are chopping into the cabin to make room for a galley that can serve more than 2 rudys boxed lunches. 12 hrs+ means 3 meals often. Dassault has a a hard time grasping this...

A 7X feels many times smaller than either a GLEX or a Gxxx. This will be its issue.

Its going to be neat as hell, and Falcon people will buy it...but Dassault has no clue about long range flying from a pax viewpoint.

either way, as pilots Im sure we would/will fly any of them.

 

[AA717driver]

Keep in mind, long-range to the French means Paris to NYC, The Gulf and N. Africa.

The rest of the World matters not... TC

 

[GVFlyer]

...I would think most passengers care more about the cross section than the cabin length on long flights but I don't know... it is a lot shorter.... Most buyers will probably be the loyal falcon owners upgrading, I'm sure most gulfstream and GLEX owners will stick with their brand...

I know that Gulfstream has lost sales to customers for whom the extra 10 inches of cabin width on the Global was important, such as AIG and Citibank, but by and large this has had very little impact on Gulfstream's market share - there are about 125 Globals and derivatives in the hands of operators while Gulfstream has delivered over 400 GV/G500/G550s.

Here is the current Gulfstream product line base prices (millions):

G550 - $47.15

G500 - $38.76

G450 - $34.17

G350 - $29.50


The long haul Dassault product line-up is priced as follows:

Falcon 7X starts at $39.20 million.

Falcon 900EX - $36.15 million


Here's the Bombardier list prices, in practice they sell for less.

Global XRS - $47.75 million

Global 5000 - $36.75 million.


I think you are correct in your assessment that there is pervasive brand loyalty among the business aircraft customer base.


GV