Falcon 2000

[capt_zman]

We are in the process of evaluating one, can someone in the know give the pros vs. cons. Haven't heard of many cons, but would like to know from someone who flies it.

Boss wants a big cabin and nonstop service to Europe.

Thanks
Z-

 

[banned username 2]

and nonstop service to Europe.

Well if you want Non-stop service to Europe, I hope you are on the East coast...

Are you guys looking at the 2000 or 2000EX? The EX has about 700 NM more range...

 

[Gulfstream 200]

where are you based?

where in Europe does he need to go non-stop?.

The 2000 could be limited in what you describe - can he live with a gander or kef fuel stop?

 

[DC3Flyer]

All in all a pretty good airplane. It is a little underpowered, not the best takeoff and climb performance. If you need anti-ice climbing through the mid 20's the rate of climb really suffers. The climb schedule is 260kts to M.73 and at 260 indicated it will only be climbing at 800-1000 ft/minute. Once you get up to altitude it cruises right along and is very fuel efficient. For international ops the Mach hold feature would be nice. Send me an e-mail for any more questions you might have.

 

[capt_zman]

We are currently based out of Boston with an 800XP, so we are familiar with gander and kef. The boss has a couple of homes in Ireland, so bos-eick is the typical european mission, with possibilities of the uk and italy. Also does alot of vegas, phx and west coast trips as well.

He is really smitten with this airplane (which looks like a straight 2000 as we have not discussed the 2000EX). Looks like his price point is in the 12-15 mil range, which may exclude the EX. Costs look like they are going to run anywhere from 100-200 more per hour than the hawker, which is pretty appetizing.

What else is there in that category and price range? The GIV is significantly more money to operate, the challenger is a runway hog, the falcon 50 cabin is too small, and it looks like the 900 is too expensive.

Thanks for all the replies, just wondering what others thoughts are.

 

[Computer Geek]

The challenger is a runway hog... at least it can make it to Europe from boston!

CG

 

[banned username 2]

The 2000 will have no problem making Ireland from BOS... Even the UK should be doable...

I don't think you are going to find much more in that price range that will give you the diversity... The 2000EX is definately out of his price range (2000EX is like $24.5 Million)

 

[FracCapt]

Post this over in the Fractionals section so the NJA pilots will see it. They fly a lot more than most corporate operators(and to every type of airport imaginable), so they should be able to tell you what it will and will not do - as well as any MX/Performance problems it has.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

really?

and to every type of airport imaginable??!!!

 

[G4G5]

Does everything a G4 does domesticly on half the gas.

It's not IMHO an international aircraft. No ABEX or RAT. Your only back up electrical system is your ONE battery, and don't tell me you can get the APU lit unless you have actually tried it.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I gotta agree.

A 2000 is not an Intl aircraft. Once a year or so?...OK, maybe.

If it was my 18mil I would go with a nice used GIVSP. - but then again I dont have this problem!

 

[G100driver]

It's not IMHO an international aircraft. No ABEX or RAT. Your only back up electrical system is your ONE battery, and don't tell me you can get the APU lit unless you have actually tried it.

Actually, all the new Falcon's have only one battery. The French will lose a sale instead of give the customer another battery. I will let you know on the APU light at FL350 after a cold soak next week. It will be part of our acceptance flight.

As far as the international comments I have to agree. This why we did not purchase a straight 2000. We went with the 2000EX for the extra range and tax advantages of new.

With that said, for 15 mil you can find a 1995 601/R and still have bank left over for new paint and interior. It will be a bit of a runway hog, but it will more than get the job done at a reasonalble price.

 

[G100driver]

don't tell me you can get the APU lit unless you have actually tried it.

I just tried it today at the end of an acceptance flight while cruising at FL350. Works just fine.

As for the bat thing, I understand that the EASy's will have 2 of them instead the 1 that is now in the 900's and 2000.

 

[banned username 2]

As for the bat thing, I understand that the EASy's will have 2 of them instead the 1 that is now in the 900's and 2000.

When did they go to one Batt in the 900's??? The 900EX's I fly as well as the 50EX's both have 2 large (36 Ah) batteries.

 

[G100driver]

Do not know. I have never flown the 900, just repeating what I heard in school.

It was durning the electrical session after lunch while trying to adjust to EST. I will be the 1st to admit if I am wrong. Not that it has ever happened before

 

[banned username 2]

It was durning the electrical session after lunch while trying to adjust to EST. I will be the 1st to admit if I am wrong. Not that it has ever happened before

Well seeing as today is Wednesday, that would be a FREE lunch!

 

[2000flyer]

The 2000 is underpowered....when you're comparing it to a G4. The only time power becomes an issue is a short lag between FL360-390, and when using anti-ice at high altitudes. Otherwise, absolutely no problem what-so-ever!

The 2000EX EASy will have two batteries.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with flying it international. I've heard the RAT, battery, yada yada issue several times. I'm sure the G5 is a real bummer over the pacific with a total electrical failure (sarcasm....what are the odds?). I don't care if you're flying a Citation or 767 over water....you plan accordingly.

Eastbound to Europe shouldn't be much of a problem out of Boston most days. Westbound, especially in winter, plan on Ireland - Newfoundland - east coast. Summer time depends...conditions have to be favorable.

There are a few "high" time 2000's on the market in the $12-15M range. I promise you'll love this aircraft.

2000Flyer

 

[Bandit60]

My company has a 2000EX and they are very pleased with it so far. I personally dont fly it but those who do have good things to say about it. It has alot more power than the 2000 and it is extremely quite in the cabin.

 

[G4G5]

You are absolutly kidding yourself if you think that the F2000 is a international over water aircraft. Just look at what the FAA requires the 121 etops carriers to have. Then ask yourself if you still fee comfortable with that ONE battery.

Dassault never intended to have the F2000 operate as an over the pond aircraft. They specificly market the THREE engine aircraft for the long international market.

Is a total electrical failure a remote possiblity, yes. But if you still feel so confident that the F2000 is a long haul over water aircraft. So be it. The next time you are in TEB ask your instructor to give it to you in the sim. Then see what happens when you have to do an emergency descent just so you can get down to the APU guranteed start envelope with a min of 22v.

Oh yeah, that APU always starts on the first try after being cold soaked at altitude for hours. Whats left in that batt now?

What about the Oxygen wet foot print? Anyone taking this aircraft to for long over water flights (especially Hawaii) may want to look at those pages in the flight manual.

 

[AA717driver]

G4G5--Maybe they WANT to live on the edge...

You want comfort(spelled redundancy) you have to pay for it. Sure, what are the odds of a total electrical failure? Probably slim.

Ditching in 30 foot waves... TC