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FAA Ramp Checks!

  • Thread starter Thread starter A1FlyBoy
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Final story, and I promise to waste no more bandwidth on ramp stories (What is bandwidth, anyway??).

Part 135, light twin, air ambulance. I ended up carrying a friend who had a heart attack. I was preoccupied with seeing him safely into the ambulance, and didn't notice the two guys in cheap suits with mismatched socks looking the airplane over, until they asked for my certificate and medical. All was quiet until then. It turned out they were doing a base inspection at the FBO/Operator where I stopped with the patient, and the airplane I was flying belonged to that company; it was on leaseback to mine...so they wanted to inspect it, too. Fine.

One inspector was good cop. Very cordial, very polite. Asked a few questions. Second inspector was Satan. (Really).

Screwtape crawled all over the aircraft. Before the patient was even in the ambulance, he was in the back of the airplane pawing through the patients medical records. I took them away from the inspector twice, stating that those papers were private and confidential. He began tossing medical supplies out of the aircraft, and going through the nurses drug bag. Then he went around to the front of the aircraft and began tossing out all the papers there. I went to a payphone to call the boss; I spoke to the DO and told him what was happening. He told me to have them call him when they were done playing.

When I got back to the aircraft, screwtape was ready. He told me that the oxygen bottle sitting on the medical stretcher was a violation, as it wasn't secured. I pointed out that we had just removed the patient, and right now, nothing was secured. He told me I obviously didn't have the flight experience to be doing this job, and had never seen real turbulence, as that bottle could kill someone where it was. He made me secure everything and tie it all down while it sat on the ramp, to demonstrate that I did know how to secure things.

There was an old, old notebook in a pouch in the cockpit that had been used for discrepancies ages ago (and probably waitresses phone numbers and who knows what else). The last discrepancy noted was some fifteen years before; the book hadn't been touched in a LONG time. He stated that this was the maintenance log and wasn't used, and wrote that up as a violation. I explained that it wasn't the discrepancy log we used, but he didn't care. He demanded my certificate and medical again, and said he'd give them "to the boys at the GADO (FSDO) to take care of."

He found nine discrepancies, such as a chip on the ice detector lens, and wrote them all down stating that they were grounding items. He was yelling, waving his arms in the air, and turned a most energetic shade of purple. (I thought for a while he might need that oxygen bottle, and regretted sending the ambulance away prematurely). One discrepancy was what he called a cracked main landing gear door. That particular door had a fiberglass inner laminate stiffener, and the gelcoat surface had a scratch, which had been darkened by grease. I didn't argue, but thanked him for finding it, and asked what he wanted me to do.

He assured me he would put "red tags" on everything and ground the airplane, but that he was all out of red tags. He said I either had to have the door removed, or fixed, but that the airplane could not be flown in that condition. I invited him inside, and called the DO and DoM to talk with him. Then I took the nurses to lunch. I called the boss from lunch, he assured me the problem had been taken care of, and that he'd contracted with the owner/FBO to remove the doors.

I arrived back to find the doors in place, and after discussing it with the FBO/DoM, the doors were removed, stored in baggage, and we left for home. The next morning the I visited the DO in his office, and arrived just in time for the FAA to call. I could hear the inspector yelling even though the DO was accross a desk from me with the phone to his ear. Finally he handed the phone to me, and said, "here. This is for you."

The inspector was livid. He made threats. He screamed into the phone. He yelled. He finally sent me a letter of investigation, to which I replied. In that reply, I included his statement to "either have it removed, or get it fixed." Two months later he called me at home at ten o' clock at night, still upset and yelling, and told me that he would have dropped the whole thing, but that I had implicated him, and that he would "nail" me "to the wall." Then he hung up.

Shortly thereafter the inspector was transferred to another area. I found out he had been required to transfer a number of times in his career; three times when he pushed people so hard during ramp checks that he was punched and knocked down in the ramp. It took another full year, but I was cleared of everything, couched in the FAA's characteristic self-protective language that they had been unable to find adequate evidence to proceed, and that "conflicting information" existed about the circumstances. Instead, I was given a letter of warning, an administrative action, that stayed in my record for two years, and followed me.

Gotta love the feds. I do. But then, I 'm a career bug.
 
I read it posted that you only need your medical and license, which I agree but you also need to have some proof of currency with you. If that is in your logbook that is fine if it is on a sheet of paper that is fine too. When you were ramp checked did the FAA ask to show your currency, because that is what I am teaching my students.
I am interested in the replies
Thanks
 
Great stories guys! AvBug, if you have more we'd love to read them. We may find ourselves in a similiar sitaution one day and having thought about what actions to take can make all the difference.
 
Been ramped more times than I like. You can always tell when they are coming because they do stick out like a sore thumb, or it maybe, it's the short hairs on my neck that stand on end if within 500 feet of a Fed. I always try to have my license and medical out before they ask for it - because they will. I also make sure to get the Regisration and Airworthiness Cert. out. They seem to like that. I am also very nice and ask them how their day is going. I then start to dig into where they used to work before becoming a Fed. and what cool planes they flew. If you can get them talking about themselves it keeps them from prying and asking you too many questions. Before you know it, it will be time for you to leave on your next leg as they can not hold up a 135 or 121 flight. Moral of the story, scratch them behind the ears because they like it but never take your eyes off them because some but not all are known to bite. Good Luck.

KlingonLRDRVR
 
How often do they ramp check part 91 flights/planes/pilots? Also can the FAA come onto private fields such as some of the fly-ins(I know cops don't patrol most of them)?
 
Ilinpilot,

The FAA does not require a pilot to carry proof of currency. Pilot certificate and medical certificate. Otherwise, the only proof of currency required is evidence of a VOR check in the previous 30 days for the aircraft...nothing for the pilot.

Rest assured that if something warrants invesgiation or enforcement action to the point of needing information about your currency, you will be requested to produce your logbooks. It's well to remember that logbooks are legal documents, and the information used in them may certainly be used against you. It's also well to remember that in many cases of FAA enforcement action, the FAA's only real evidence is that provided by the pilot. Sometimes it's an admission over the radio, something said on-site, or a letter in response to the 10 day notice in a letter of investigation (LoI).

A1Fly,

The best thing you can do in a ramp check is to maintain an attitude of "compliance" while doing nothing to compromise yourself. Without question, the best time to prepare for a ramp check is long before it occurs; never place yourself in a position to draw attention, or to be violated if you are ramped. Always operate such that if you are ramped at any given time, you're clean and clear.

I highly recommend the legal plan offered by AOPA. It's got some weakness and drawbacks, but even if you use it once for a consultation, then it's paid for itself. It only costs a few dollars (about fifty bucks a year for ATP, I believe, and less for commercial or private), and it's a cheap back up.

Carry NASA ASRS forms with you (I have a stack by my computer, right here), and use them as you need them. Understand the rules about using them, and use caution and prudence.

Never respond to a notice or call without consulting an attorney. Be careful what you say on the radio, to ATC, or to others around the airport. Anything you say or write can and certainly will be used against you, and you don't have the same rights as you might enjoy in the civil or criminal process. In administrative law, you're assumed guilty until proven innocent, and it's best to place yourself in a position to never be assumed guilty in the first place. You don't have a right to avoid prosecution; only to appeal it. You're automatically deemed guilty; your only place in the entire process is to appeal it. Therefore, avoid it completely.

Be polite, speak to the inspector, answer questions, but admit to nothing. Don't believe the old wive's tale that when the inspector asks to see your certificate, you can't hand it to him. Some people will tell you that this constitutes surrendering your certificate, and that entices people to refuse to hand their certificate to the inspector. This is entirely wrong, and only serves to upset the inspector. Don't do that. You haven't surrendered your certificate unless you formally do so in writing, so don't worry. The FAR is clear on this.

It's acceptable to request to view the inspector's Form 110A, which is the official identification credential the inspector is required to show you (upon request). It sets a tone by letting the inspector know you understand the process. When the inspector asks to see your pilot certificate, ask to see his/her 110A. Doing so is proper.

The inspector may NOT enter your aircraft without permission. You do NOT have to give permission. If your aircraft is tied down and you are away from it, or it is simply closed up, the inspector may not open it or do anything more than look inside through the windows. Only things in plain view may be fair game. The inspector in my last story violated this principle numerous times, in numerous ways. Can't do it.

Be careful about seemingly innocent questions. Inspectors may talk about the weather, and how far it is to a certain destination. They may be piecing togther information to trap you; it's part of their job, and you need to understand that, going in. They are NOT there to help you; they are there to violate you. That is their function; it's what they're paid to do. It's their purpose for being there. Be very aware of that. No matter what is said, always bear that in mind, and act and speak accordingly. Don't offer anything; let them ask. It's their job, don't do it for them.

Remember that the inspector is not a law enforcement officer, but is also not restricted by many of the things that prevent a law enforcement officer from more fully doing his job. The inspector is also a lot more subtle, and may not even be identifiable initially. (Look for mismatched socks). There are some good articles out there on the subject, some of which are on the web. Avweb used to have several good pieces on the subject on ramp checks. I don't have the references here, but they're easy to find. Good luck!!
 
Shawn,

The FAA can visit private fields, but should provide 24 hours notice before arriving. That doesn't always happen, and if they learn something when not acting in an official capacity (such as simply visited off-ours as a spectator or visitor), it can still be used against you. No such thing as improperly obtained evidence, so there is a very big loophole in favor of the FAA. They should give notice, but can easily get away without it.
 
Avbug,

Thanks. If you can get the legal notice for me that would be great.

I do pretty much the same as you. I make sure that none of the revisions affect my flights. Then I try to do as much of them as I can. I feel the pain about getting swamped with them. Everytime I turned around, at least 3 more would be in my file.

Also, did your letter specifically state it was a warning or administrative action?
 
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A warning letter is an administrative action taken when the situation or evidence doesn't warrant an enforcement sanction. It's the next step down from a suspension, so to speak.
 
Fed firewalls

Along with the materials I suggested above, consider joining the AOPA. The AOPA legal plan is alright, of course, and as a member advice on fed actions and other aviation legal issues is just a phone call away.
 
Here is some food for thought on your ramp checks..
You are required to "SHOW" your license and medical to the inspector upon request. You are NOT required to hand those items to that person. I say this because if you get an irate inspector who has not gotten any lately or for some reason takes an instant dislike to you, they are subject to tear them up. Yes tear them up. This has happened to a pilot I know. You cannot fly without a valid license or medical in your possession. Now they are in the drivers seat because now you have to obtain new ones and in the mean time to get them you must prove your innocense of any violations. Whereas, you holding on to them they must take some sort of administative action to get them. While they fight, you are still flying. For the most part these people are above board and are cordial, but take no chances.
It is your livelyhood on the line. As long as we pay taxes they continue to draw a check. With us, no ticket, no check...
I have been ramp checked and have refused to "hand over" my license. I did however hold it firmly in my hand for their view. Not that they liked it, but they still got what they needed to see.. Nothing was ever said.... Above all be above them. That is be courteous at all times...
 
This is a very common misconception, which I addressed in a previous post. I'll address it again. The FAA cannot take away your certificate without administrative action. In the event an inspector made the mistake of physically damaging or tearing up your certificate, your privileges are still in force, and so long as you have the torn certificate in your possesion, you meet the requirements of 14 CFR 61.3(a). The same applies to a medical certificate.

An inspector who behaves in the manner you indicated is subject to enforcement action, as this does not constitute acceptable behavior, and is contrary to the Federal Aviation Regulations. The Administrator may revoke a certifictate or suspend operating privileges, but this takes time; even in the case of an emergency suspension or revocation. It is NOT immediate.

An inspector may not take a certificate. Handing the certificate to an inspector is NOT surrendering it. (Surrendering the certificate must be done in writing, in accordance with 61.27(b).

It's worth remembering that the pilot certificates we hold are not ours; they are paper representations of privileges accorded us by the administrator, and the paper those certificates are printed on belongs to the government, not us. That's going to grate on someone's nerves, and folks will cringe at the thought of the "feds" impinging on our rights, but that's the law, and that's the system under which we operate.

Refusing to hand over a certificate physically may only cause bad feelings between a pilot and the inspector, and will definately show a lack of "compliance." On that ground alone, an inspector may choose enforcement action over a warning or comment and a handshake. I've seen it happen. The casebooks are filled with accounts that should have remained simple exchanges, but turned into a pissing contest because the airman failed to show a compliant attitude. It can, and often does, make all the difference in the world.
 
Check out some of the aviation law books and references mentioned. My favorite is "Violation". Scarry bedtime stories for pilots. Some good to know info too:

Believe it or not, you do not have to let a fed on a part 91 aircraft (read it in books). Of course, might stir up a behive denying access. Flying jumpers many moons ago, my approach was "cooperative", "compliance minded", "what can I do for you, here is the airworthiness, lic. medical....." before fed asked to come on board (otter's, king airs etc...).. But when the question "can I take a look" came up, I respectfully said company policy dictated I must get the ok of the boss, and I'd be glad to walk over to the office and introduce... 9 out of 10, the fed passed on it. Either way, leaves enough time for somebody to radio/cellphone somebody to go count seatbelts, install spares, burn the aircraft to ground, while the fed is meeting the boss.....

Only other nickel theory I've come up with is keep a clean, organized cockpit (121/135 ops). No regulatory requirement, but it sets the tone with the inspector(s). Be able to find what they need, when they need it. What would you think of a pig sty, or a crew that takes 15 minutes to find the MEL etc..? Not to say clean means compliance, but it is a physcological thing....
 
Live near and fly out of an airport very close to Washington DC. It's almost that time of the year (the first really nice spring day) when the pencil pushers downtown will make their annual trek out to the nearby airports. They get a beautiful day frolicing in the sunshine but to justify it they've really got to go out and violate some people.

The first time I met these wonderful guys, I had the distinct reputation of being the first pilot at our field to completely curse out and dress down an FAA inspector before he even identified himself. The yo-yo refused to back away from a running prop and he had entered into what I considered my safety margin. After many hand signals trying to get him to back off, I finally shut down the airplane, jumped out and cursed him out a blue streak for being so stupid pointing out my safety concerns for his less than worthy life. The guy was almost trembling as he pulled out his badge and identified himself. He asked to see my license and medical and after jotting a few notes, he thanked me and practically ran to his car. I wrote down his name, badge number and asked which office he came from (Headquarters, of course). Everyone at the FBO came out cheering and clapping for my performance. One guy who had been reamed earlier in the day regretted that I had not shown up sooner because the inspector had been a royal pain in the a$$.

The second time (also a beautiful spring day), I had to make a pretty quick trip up north and was running late. I arrived at the airport and noticed two guys in business suits around a neighbors plane. Quite unusual. These guys were poking around, looking in the windows, looking at the tires and gear and airfoils. Then they started hanging tags on the plane and placed a sticky note under the pilot's door handle. They moved on to the next plane. I got out of my car, walked to my friends plane and saw that he had been inspected and now had to write a letter to the FAA explaining why his data plate was painted over. (Are you kidding me!) The guy's plane had been painted four years ago!

So I ran past the suits, pulled my chocks and tie downs, made sure I had my seat belt on, fired the plane up and taxiied it all the way over to the farthest point on the field I could get it from their inspection activity. I walked back to my car, got my gear, did a normal pre-flight and had a great day.

Although the FAA has never really done anything to me, if they are out doing ramp checks, they are on a witch hunt. They need to find things wrong to justify the fact that they are out there (kind of like police quota's). As was stated before, license and medical only. Don't answer any question (even about the weather) without considering what the ramifications are about that question. Unless you are a student or a renter, keep your pilot's logbook at home, keep your airplane records at home. AROW for the plane and don't even let the inspector inside the airplane (he has to ask for permission) - just get the AROW documents for him. He may observe you removing the Airworthiness Certificate which by law must be in a position viewable by passengers entering the aircraft. That is all. A worst case scenario would be getting a ramp check after arriving IFR. Your answers are "yes" you are current, "no" you don't have your logbook with you and the sticky one, "yes" here's the record of my last VOR check or "no" I just flew the NDB-A approach!
 
ramp check

I had a line check with the feds about two weeks ago, I fly the Emb-120, in a part 121 operation. With the new regs say that no body can occupy the jumpseat in the Brasilia, so the FAA guy had to sit in the back of the A/C with the cockpit door shut, when we got to our destination he came up the front and asked us how the flight went, the captain replied "we were f***ing brilliant", the fed said "thats what I thought".
The best line check ever.:D
 

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