FAA punishment??

[59PA]

Where does the general counsel publish their interpretations? Are they available online anywhere?

 

[avbug]

Do what several of us do...use the same disc and database most of the FAA uses at their desks. ASA publishes Summit Publications Pro Flight Library. You can get one disc a year for about eighty bucks, or subscribe more frequently for updates, depending on how much you want to spend. It has everything on one disc, and makes searches fast. You can order the disc through sporties or any pilot supply place.

 

[A Squared]

Jafi,

Yeah, I know about emergency suspensions and revocations and I realize that's a whole different deal, and not used in the majority of enforcements.

As I sit in court watching the proceedings, it IS a trial.

Yes, it may appear to be a trial to you, but in reality, it is an appeal, officially and in the eyes of the law. Notice that in all of the references you and I have tossed back and forth in this thread, it is referred to as an appeal.

We never know the outcome until the Judge hands down his verdict.

Well, yeah, but that is true of any proceedings, right up to appeals before the supreme court. I'll bet if you ask the lawyers who you're there with, they will agree that the outcome you are waiting for is if the judge is going to "sustain" or "uphold" the FAA's order of sanction or if the order will be "overturned" These are the decisions rendered in an appeal; Sustain, or overturn (or variations thereof) A decision in a trial is guilty or innocent.

The FAA proposes a sanction (that is why a Letter of PROPOSED Certificate Action is sent)....

Right, I understand that a Notice of Proposed Certificate Action is sent to the airman. I think we are in agreement with that. However that is one of the early steps, this happens *before* the informal conference. After the informal conferenc, and before you appeal you are served with a Order of Sanction. That's a whole different document, and it's not a proposal at all at that point, if you chose not to appeal, that order suspends (or revokes) your certificate. If you chose to appeal, the suspension is postponed until the outcome of hte appeal. Here's a link to an FAA page which outlines what happens once you receive an NPCA:

http://www.faa.gov/region/aso/aso7/docs1/NOPCA.txt.

Here's another link to a page an attorney has put together describing the process. This is perhaps more illustrative as it lists the various steps in the order they occur. Or at least the steps the pilot sees, as I'm sure you're aware, there's more going on behind the scenes at the FAA involving the investigation.

http://www.wca-intl.org/FAAenf.htm

Notise that the steps, in order are:

1) Letter of Investigation
2) Notice of Proposed Certificate Action
3) Informal Conference
4) Order of Suspension
5) Appeal to NTSB ALJ
6) Appeal to the full board of the NTSB


Here's the first paragraph from an order from an NTSB appeal (to the full board, second stage of appeal) The respondent (pilot) wasn't happy with the ALJ's decision in the first stage of appeal.

The respondent has appealed from the oral initial decision of Administrative Law Judge Patrick G. Geraghty issued at the conclusion of an evidentiary hearing held on May 28, 1992.1 By that decision, the law judge affirmed an order of the Administrator suspending respondent's airline transport pilot certificate for 45 days on allegations of violations...

Notice how the italicized phrase is worded ... ....affirmed an order of the administrator...

the ALJ is affirming the administrator's order, not accepting his/her proposal on a sanction.

As to the appeal of an Investigation, I do not know of any legal process where you can appeal an Investigation. IMHO an Investigation is either ongoing or closed.

Agreed, I said that to make a rhetorical point, that you don't appeal an investigation, you appeal the results of the investigation (the order of sanction being the result)

I’ll have to ask legal the next time I talk to them.

Yeah, do that. I think you'll find that they'll tell you much what I've told you, give or take a few details. BTW, there is one misstatement which both Avbug and I have made in earlier posts, can you pick it out?

 

[avbug]

BTW, there is one misstatement which both Avbug and I have made in earlier posts, can you pick it out?

Is this anything like "Where's Waldo?" I'm pretty good at that.

 

[Tug Driver]

local fsdo called today. said they are forwarding report to regional office. bummmer. time for a lawyer. sadly I will have to work for a week to pay for one hour of his time.

 

[viper548]

bummer

 

[Sir Humpalot]

Keep your head up. This does not mean the end of your career. I know it is easier said than done but i also was in a fight with the FAA and i thought it was the end of my career. I am working right now and my employer knows about it.

If there is any advise you need, just send me a private message.

peace

 

[fdxmd11pilot]

you'll be fine, i know 2 guys both multi ifr rated that blasted through bravo w/o clearance. one is a airline fo about to make capt., the other a frieghtdog

Landover,

Please explain to me the difference between an "airline fo about to make capt" and a "freightdog". I guess I still don't get it. Is the airline guy the one whose about to lose his job, while the freightdog is moving up the seniority ladder at a fast rate, flying bigger and bigger jets while his "airline" buddy is going backwards. If that's what you meant, then I understand.

 

[aLear31pilot]

Tug driver,
I had a run in that maybe parallels yours years ago with about 800 hours. I came out of the clouds after a four hour flight, had a private pilot sitting in the pax seat flipping gadgets telling me I was there. Two identically laid out airports 5 miles away from eachother. One controlled, one not. Guess which one I was aiming for and which one I got??? Yep. Landed at the controlled one, with no communication. Ever get that heart just hit my pucker hole feeling as you pull off the runway, cursing that dang Citation driver for not making his calls on final, then reading the wrong name on the building.?? lol (now I can at least).
I got a call from the tower when I hit the f.b.o.. They asked for the quick run down and I was just HONEST For what it's worth in today's day and age. I filled out a report and popped it off the next a.m., few weeks later they called and gave me the options from the local fsdo. I was completely HONEST with them once again, I knew I messed up, and was willing to take my licks like a man and not just immediatly run to an attorney as many would tell you to do. They gave me the "this could happen and that could happen"speach and requested my logbook which I sent to them. Stll not having an attorney, they asked me to come in for a meeting, which I did. That afternoon we met and here's what they did. Had to take a course which they provided on ground marking and instrument approaches (?)(pretty much p.p. stuff), gave me a bunch of c.d.s. on related items(free ;-)), 1 hour recurrent training with an instructor, and told me that if I had another incident within the next 12 months, that i would have a 30 day suspension of my license. It stayed on my file for 2 years after date of incident then gone.
End of story. Never came up again. Nothing more than another story on here, but after I met them, I realized they weren't all standing in "grim reaper" outfits waiting to cook my goose, they actually just wanted to keep the sky as safe as I did, and didn't want to come to my smokin hole in the ground.
Best of luck to ya!

 

[atlcrashpad]

Keep us updated

Tug Driver,

Keep us posted on you situation. We are pulling for you. The net is a vast resource of info and there is always someone out there that can pull something for you. Good luck.