pilotman2105
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FAA Not hiring new controllers!!?!?
- Thread starter Lrjtcaptain
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I heard an estimate that 75% if the government is nearing retireing age. I do not know if it is the FAA or the entire gov. I know it takes about two years to train and Inspector I think it is close to that to train an ATC person. How much you want to bet that the Gov will wait until the staffing reaches critical levels to even think about hireing? Or wait until the next big crash to get funding?
Speaking about funding didn't you guys get a unfunded 30% retroactive pay rase a couple of years ago? I know the controllers in my area all went our with the 30,000 back pay check and bought new cars with cash. What does the top controller make now $120,000?
Maybe you priced your self out of a job?
Speaking about funding didn't you guys get a unfunded 30% retroactive pay rase a couple of years ago? I know the controllers in my area all went our with the 30,000 back pay check and bought new cars with cash. What does the top controller make now $120,000?
Maybe you priced your self out of a job?
What I'm worried about is this downsizing will happen just as the new mini jets enter the skies and jam the higher altitude airways. I understand that the seperation is being shortened and that all aircraft above a certain flight level are required to have proper onboard traffic alert system.
pilotman2105
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Lrjtcaptain
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ATCER
I have revised routing...
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Lrjcaptain is right... I got it from Natca's website, they have a whole area dedictated to news but it is only available to members. They do have some free stuff (for non members) so check out the site. (www.natca.org)
As for jamming the high altitude airways, that is the why the FAA is going to DRVSM (Domestic Reduced Vertical Separation Minima). Between FL290 and FL410 separation will be 1000' vs. the 2000' feet used now. RVSM has been used in Oceanic Ops. for a few years now with great results.
As for jamming the high altitude airways, that is the why the FAA is going to DRVSM (Domestic Reduced Vertical Separation Minima). Between FL290 and FL410 separation will be 1000' vs. the 2000' feet used now. RVSM has been used in Oceanic Ops. for a few years now with great results.
Lrjtcaptain
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ATCER
I have revised routing...
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Thursday, March 25, 2004
Like priority lanes on highways, special expressways in the sky are being created to route planes around crowded airspace and severe weather to reduce flight delays, the Federal Aviation Administration announced Wednesday.
The plan is aimed at reducing delays as air travel is expected to rebound this summer to levels last seen in 2000 and 2001 before the Sept. 11 attacks.
To open up paths in congested skies, the airlines have agreed to accept more brief delays and to reroute flights to keep the air-traffic system running as smoothly as possible, said FAA Administrator Marion Blakey.
"It's not just a question of redistributing the pain; it's lessening the pain for everyone," she said at the agency's command center outside Washington.
Blakey cautioned that the new measures, which require the FAA and the airlines to go further than ever in taking a systemwide approach when problems arise, represent only part of the solution, along with new technology and more runways at airports that have become choke points.
Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta said Wednesday that he is prepared to act forcefully to correct airline over-scheduling if the new changes fail to fix the problem. He spoke in front of a movie screen-size monitor at the command center that showed mounting congestion near O'Hare International Airport because of passing storms.
Mineta and Blakey negotiated with American Airlines and United Airlines to cut their flights by 5 percent during peak hours at O'Hare this month through September. Blakey said it is too early to determine whether the cuts--63 flights out of more than 2,800 a day at the airport--were deep enough.
O'Hare ranks last in on-time performance among the largest U.S. airports, and the congestion in Chicago has a domino effect across the nation.
Air-traffic controllers said that having the equivalent of high-occupancy vehicle lanes in the sky would ease congestion during peak hours as long as flight routes remain clear. But they doubt the express lanes would have much impact during bad weather.
"If we are surrounded by thunderstorms, planes are not going to fly into that weather under any circumstances. So our airspace shrinks," said Raymond Gibbons, president of the controllers union at the FAA radar site in Elgin, Ill., which handles aircraft in the Chicago region.
"We will still be prisoners of where the weather is," Gibbons said. "You can't go to Washington, D.C., by way of Los Angeles."
How changes will work
As flight delays begin to grow at an airport, aircraft will be given priority to depart--the equivalent of a longer green traffic light. Air-traffic controllers, meanwhile, will implement short delays for planes taking off from other selected airports to minimize the overall impact on the air-traffic system, said Jack Kies, operations director at the command center.
Kies said the changes are "more in all of our best interests than just having one airport take the hit exclusively. If we apply the concept systemically, we'll get our paybacks."
The large screens at the command center Wednesday displayed an intensifying line of thunderstorms passing over the Midwest, leaving few gaps of calm air for aircraft flying to O'Hare from the Northeast. The tops of the storm clouds exceeded 50,000 feet, making it impossible for planes to fly above the turbulent weather and difficult to fly around it as the storm system got organized.
The result was fewer planes permitted to arrive at O'Hare each hour, and outbound flights from Chicago being delayed.
The new plan calls for the airlines to take brief delays--10 to 15 minutes--for O'Hare-bound flights so that aircraft leaving O'Hare would face less congestion in the sky, said FAA Deputy Associate Administrator Peter Challen.
City officials see little help
Chicago Department of Aviation officials said they haven't observed improvements at O'Hare since the new program was activated on Monday.
"This morning and again this evening, there were 30- to- 60-minute delays because of poor visibility. We have had delays off and on all day," department spokeswoman Monique Bond said Wednesday.
The express lanes are among several new air-traffic tools to ward off summer gridlock.
Blakey also said the FAA is counting on airlines to decide on cancellations and reroute aircraft more quickly when bad weather is forecast, and to pass along accurate information to the agency before delays become major disruptions.
"We are putting everything on the table. All our cards are going to be face up," she said.
Like priority lanes on highways, special expressways in the sky are being created to route planes around crowded airspace and severe weather to reduce flight delays, the Federal Aviation Administration announced Wednesday.
The plan is aimed at reducing delays as air travel is expected to rebound this summer to levels last seen in 2000 and 2001 before the Sept. 11 attacks.
To open up paths in congested skies, the airlines have agreed to accept more brief delays and to reroute flights to keep the air-traffic system running as smoothly as possible, said FAA Administrator Marion Blakey.
"It's not just a question of redistributing the pain; it's lessening the pain for everyone," she said at the agency's command center outside Washington.
Blakey cautioned that the new measures, which require the FAA and the airlines to go further than ever in taking a systemwide approach when problems arise, represent only part of the solution, along with new technology and more runways at airports that have become choke points.
Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta said Wednesday that he is prepared to act forcefully to correct airline over-scheduling if the new changes fail to fix the problem. He spoke in front of a movie screen-size monitor at the command center that showed mounting congestion near O'Hare International Airport because of passing storms.
Mineta and Blakey negotiated with American Airlines and United Airlines to cut their flights by 5 percent during peak hours at O'Hare this month through September. Blakey said it is too early to determine whether the cuts--63 flights out of more than 2,800 a day at the airport--were deep enough.
O'Hare ranks last in on-time performance among the largest U.S. airports, and the congestion in Chicago has a domino effect across the nation.
Air-traffic controllers said that having the equivalent of high-occupancy vehicle lanes in the sky would ease congestion during peak hours as long as flight routes remain clear. But they doubt the express lanes would have much impact during bad weather.
"If we are surrounded by thunderstorms, planes are not going to fly into that weather under any circumstances. So our airspace shrinks," said Raymond Gibbons, president of the controllers union at the FAA radar site in Elgin, Ill., which handles aircraft in the Chicago region.
"We will still be prisoners of where the weather is," Gibbons said. "You can't go to Washington, D.C., by way of Los Angeles."
How changes will work
As flight delays begin to grow at an airport, aircraft will be given priority to depart--the equivalent of a longer green traffic light. Air-traffic controllers, meanwhile, will implement short delays for planes taking off from other selected airports to minimize the overall impact on the air-traffic system, said Jack Kies, operations director at the command center.
Kies said the changes are "more in all of our best interests than just having one airport take the hit exclusively. If we apply the concept systemically, we'll get our paybacks."
The large screens at the command center Wednesday displayed an intensifying line of thunderstorms passing over the Midwest, leaving few gaps of calm air for aircraft flying to O'Hare from the Northeast. The tops of the storm clouds exceeded 50,000 feet, making it impossible for planes to fly above the turbulent weather and difficult to fly around it as the storm system got organized.
The result was fewer planes permitted to arrive at O'Hare each hour, and outbound flights from Chicago being delayed.
The new plan calls for the airlines to take brief delays--10 to 15 minutes--for O'Hare-bound flights so that aircraft leaving O'Hare would face less congestion in the sky, said FAA Deputy Associate Administrator Peter Challen.
City officials see little help
Chicago Department of Aviation officials said they haven't observed improvements at O'Hare since the new program was activated on Monday.
"This morning and again this evening, there were 30- to- 60-minute delays because of poor visibility. We have had delays off and on all day," department spokeswoman Monique Bond said Wednesday.
The express lanes are among several new air-traffic tools to ward off summer gridlock.
Blakey also said the FAA is counting on airlines to decide on cancellations and reroute aircraft more quickly when bad weather is forecast, and to pass along accurate information to the agency before delays become major disruptions.
"We are putting everything on the table. All our cards are going to be face up," she said.
Vector4fun
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- Jul 25, 2003
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There are a dozen different theories about who is gaming who and for what reason regarding ATC staffing and hiring. Some feel the FAA ATC system is being set up to "fail" by causing a staffing crisis, thus leading to wholesale Privatization. I personally think it's more likely to lead to Privatization of more Towers, but feel (perhaps naively) that there are too many un-spoken considerations (national security for example) to contract out radar facilities. I'll give you just one example. A controller friend of mine, ex Army Huey pilot, correctly predicted the invasion of Panama more than a day in advance strictly by the comming and goings of a number of C-130s and C-141s. It made perfect sense, and he was correct almost to the hour. Someone working an Oceanic sector would REALLY have an insight into the movements of our armed forces. Do we really want SERCO, or some other, foreign-owned corporation to own that data?
In any case, the reality is the FAA's staffing numbers are completely bogus. The FAA wants to count anybody with a rating as a controller. Nevermind that some of these folks rarely work actual traffic. Nevermind that some are medically disqualified. Nevermind that some are only certified on a few positions. All the Administrator, Congress, and the OIG seem to agree on is that there aren't near enough bean counters, and bean counting hardware and software to accurately assess staffing. I got news, by the time FAA perfects bean counting, ATC will be a mess. We should be hiring 1500 controllers in the next three years, and management want's to debate whether we need to spend ten, or fifteen minutes reading the pre-duty binders.
My own facility is authorised 48 controllers, we have 45, one is retiring in a couple months, two more are retiring at the end of the year, one is out indefinately after heart valve surgery, two were dignosed with diabetes the past year, (I have it also), and the average age here is mid to late 40s. So well likely be operating with about 40 controllers by this time next year. It takes somewhere between 6-18 months to check out here with prior FAA experience, I have no idea how long to train someone from a CTI school or off the street. Therfore we should be picking up at least four controllers RIGHT NOW!!! Not gonna happen.
Assuming there are a lot of facilities like mine, (I do), factor in that we're in the middle of the largest re-shuffling of managment chairs/offices in recent history as the new ATO evolves, leading to more mangement paralysis and confusion, and I see a mess in the making. I think the phrase "Unable due to staffing" may become common before too long.....
In any case, the reality is the FAA's staffing numbers are completely bogus. The FAA wants to count anybody with a rating as a controller. Nevermind that some of these folks rarely work actual traffic. Nevermind that some are medically disqualified. Nevermind that some are only certified on a few positions. All the Administrator, Congress, and the OIG seem to agree on is that there aren't near enough bean counters, and bean counting hardware and software to accurately assess staffing. I got news, by the time FAA perfects bean counting, ATC will be a mess. We should be hiring 1500 controllers in the next three years, and management want's to debate whether we need to spend ten, or fifteen minutes reading the pre-duty binders.
My own facility is authorised 48 controllers, we have 45, one is retiring in a couple months, two more are retiring at the end of the year, one is out indefinately after heart valve surgery, two were dignosed with diabetes the past year, (I have it also), and the average age here is mid to late 40s. So well likely be operating with about 40 controllers by this time next year. It takes somewhere between 6-18 months to check out here with prior FAA experience, I have no idea how long to train someone from a CTI school or off the street. Therfore we should be picking up at least four controllers RIGHT NOW!!! Not gonna happen.
Assuming there are a lot of facilities like mine, (I do), factor in that we're in the middle of the largest re-shuffling of managment chairs/offices in recent history as the new ATO evolves, leading to more mangement paralysis and confusion, and I see a mess in the making. I think the phrase "Unable due to staffing" may become common before too long.....
pilotman2105
Ground control
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Flightjock30
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I write this from my friends account (no I am not an airline pilot leaving my profession for ATC). I am right now on the waiting list for Beaver and am estimated to start Summer 2006. UGH!
In the meantime I am halfway done with completing a 4 year bachelors degree in Finance which I should receive Spring 2006. Have a backup plan for an ATC career! Thats my best advice.
In the meantime I am halfway done with completing a 4 year bachelors degree in Finance which I should receive Spring 2006. Have a backup plan for an ATC career! Thats my best advice.
Flightjock30
Well-known member
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- Jan 1, 2002
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I write this from my friends account (no I am not an airline pilot leaving my profession for ATC). I am right now on the waiting list for Beaver and am estimated to start Summer 2006. UGH!
In the meantime I am halfway done with completing a 4 year bachelors degree in Finance which I should receive Spring 2006. Have a backup plan for an ATC career! Thats my best advice.
Also for all of you whining and moaning about being sent to a Tower after your CTI program instead of a radar facility. Think about it this way.......Most Enroute and TRACON trainees washout and get sent to towers anyways. So certify at the tower and work traffic there for a year or two. Then request a transfer to an enroute or TRACON facility (I also believe you can choose WHICH radar facility you want to tranfer to after this point as long as there are openings). Good luck.
In the meantime I am halfway done with completing a 4 year bachelors degree in Finance which I should receive Spring 2006. Have a backup plan for an ATC career! Thats my best advice.
Also for all of you whining and moaning about being sent to a Tower after your CTI program instead of a radar facility. Think about it this way.......Most Enroute and TRACON trainees washout and get sent to towers anyways. So certify at the tower and work traffic there for a year or two. Then request a transfer to an enroute or TRACON facility (I also believe you can choose WHICH radar facility you want to tranfer to after this point as long as there are openings). Good luck.
Lrjtcaptain
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pilotman2105
Ground control
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Lrjtcaptain,Lrjtcaptain said:
Do you have a link for that info, or was it word of mouth?
I've been accepted to Beaver with anticipated graduation in '05. Do you think that trying some of the contract companies would be a good "foot-in-the-door" after graduation, or are those a tough gig to get in with?
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