FAA needs to hear that more than 8 hours flying per day will not make the skys safer

[crxpilot]

Hi!

I think you are quoting the British CAA rules. There are lots of CAAs in different countries.

Here in Kenya, I am flying under the Kenya CAA Intntl rules. Duty day is 15 hours, but MINIMUM rest is 11 hours, NO reduced rest, and if you do a duty day of over 14 hours, it is 16 hours of rest. Over 10, less than 11 hours duty is 12 hours rest.

I think increasing the flight time from 8-9 or 10 hours is no big deal. Reducing the duty day, along with increasing the rest, and decreasing the duty day for more TOs/Ls, and early/late starts is what is important, and it sounds like that is what will happen.

cliff
NBO

Kenya has rules??? And if you break them are there really any people to enforce them?

 

[crxpilot]

The way some people are thinking, you are going to "rule" yourself down to a much smaller paycheck if you are wanting a "9-5" duty day. Maybe you might want to go get a job at a bank if the flying fatigues you so much.

 

[densoo]

Under the CAA rules, and I'm a little fuzzy about it, but the basic jest of it is that if you start before 6 am then you can only be on duty for 9 hours. They don't care if you fly 8:59 minutes just as long as you're on the ground at 9 hours of duty and that's only with 2 legs allowed. After 6 am and before 9 am you're alotted 11 or 12 hours or so of duty and 4 sectors and after 9 am you get 13 hours of duty... again... I'm a bit fuzzy, been too long, but it worked freaking great. Either way, it would be a good thing, you just have to get used to it. Oh yeah... there is one little thing with the CAA... captains discretions of 3 hours and that's just to bring the plane back to base, but with CRM, it's a crew thingie.... hope this helps a bit. Change isn't always a bad thing.... I'm sure that the airlines will find the loop holes and do what they want in the end....

Net

Here's the British Reg. Paragraph 13.3 has the chart. The longest duty day is 14 hours based on one leg of flying if it started between 8am and 1259pm. If you move outside that start time and/or increase the numbers of legs, the duty day gets shorter, all the way down to 9 hours maximum.
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP371.PDF

 

[JoeMerchant]

Here's the British Reg. Paragraph 13.3 has the chart. The longest duty day is 14 hours based on one leg of flying if it started between 8am and 1259pm. If you move outside that start time and/or increase the numbers of legs, the duty day gets shorter, all the way down to 9 hours maximum.
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP371.PDF

Those rules would decimate the regional schedule....No more 3 day trips, and probably more 5 day trips...Senior schedules would lose 4 days off a month.

 

[waveflyer]

Crx you're an idiot. And it goes w/o saying that Joey is too. Hoping the direction it goes is in line with the rest of the logical world.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Crx you're an idiot. And it goes w/o saying that Joey is too. Hoping the direction it goes is in line with the rest of the logical world.

We're idiots for wanting to keep 3 on, 4 off schedules?

 

[waveflyer]

So you got yours don't you Joey?

What about all your pilots getting run ragged by regulations that don't remotely address fatigue? And your assuming, btw, what changes would be made to your schedule- that's why you're an idiot.... Well, one reason.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

JM, like most humans, does not want to change.

Most of the negativity about the impending FAA Flight/Duty/Rest rule changes, the US Health Care System changes, and Obama being President (after 8 yrs of Republican rule, and from a WHITE guy to a BLACK guy), are all the same.

Change is scary, and people do not like it, due to a lot of different factors.

Even when change is obviously for the good, to dramatically improve something, MANY people will be vehemently against it.

What IS ironic, is that our universe is DESIGNED by God for MASSIVE change, all the time! Here we are, in the midst of a Universe that often has dramatic and radical change, often daily, and we want everything to be the same, every day. It causes a lot of angst.

Republican leadership are very adept at playing on people's fears, so that they can control people, and keep the money rolling in! Democratic leadership also do it, but to a lesser degree, and they are not as good at it.

cliff
NBO

 

[Blue Dude]

Republican leadership are very adept at playing on people's fears, so that they can control people, and keep the money rolling in! Democratic leadership also do it, but to a lesser degree, and they are not as good at it.

Off topic rant: Hah! They *all* do it, and they are masters of it. Republicans play up national security fears. Democrats play up cuts in entitlements, "tax breaks for the rich", etc. if they're not reelected. They all use fear to spend our money on their pet projects and/or themselves. They all do nothing but grow government, no matter what they say. They all are interested in growing their own power and restricting our freedoms.

In short, they all suck hard. In 2010 and 2012, fire them all. We can hardly do worse.

Back on topic, sorry.

 

[pilotyip]

Total Safeety

So you got yours don't you Joey?

What about all your pilots getting run ragged by regulations that don't remotely address fatigue? And your assuming, btw, what changes would be made to your schedule- that's why you're an idiot.... Well, one reason.

I agree bring it on, But I ask what is the limit of ultimate crew rest? Everyone only works when they feel rested; they can call fatigue at any time during a trip, and refuse any assignment because they are not rested? How about a stopping a non-stop JFK-LAX at OMA, because they feel fatiqued from that exhausting 10 hour jumpseat commute to pick that trip at JFK. How about no flying between 2200 and 0800, make it against the law? How about those 16 hour int'l flights? Will there now be stops and crew changes at BIRK? Followed by a RO2N to be fully rested for that last leg into Europe. I have no dog in this flight, but "unintended consequences" may have devastating effects on the industry.