FAA Age 60 debate

[LarryinTN]

But this gets thoroughly and regularly tested in the sim so, as long as sim rides are passed, good to go from a brain perspective.

No, it does not.

Flying a checkride in the sim requires very little in the wage of cognitive ability. If you're been in the airplane for a while you know the maneuvers, you know the numbers that it takes to make the sim do the dance. There are few surprises.

Airliners don't crash because someone didn't hold the LOC within tolerance or couldn't hold altitude within 100' while rolling out with 10 degrees on a steep turn. The mistakes that lead to crashes are much more subtle and the key is the crew's inability to detect and correct their mistakes in time. There is nothing in the current system of recurrent training and checkrides which even attempts to quantify this type of cognitive ability.

 

[Tyro]

No, it does not.... The mistakes that lead to crashes are much more subtle and the key is the crew's inability to detect and correct their mistakes in time...

Hmmmmm. This is interesting, had not considered. Was thinking of testing the ‘machinery’ itself, but you are referring to a still higher level of cognition. Any way to program/test this by sim/scenario?

Be interesting to see how this goes, seems from what have read there is a fair amount of pressure to change the 60 rule, from at least two lawmakers. Wonder what is their motivation, not clear. Also remarkable how sharply divided the ‘camps.’

 

[Kaman]

Hello,
An earlier post (Tyro) eluded to the fact that this entire debate is not about science, it's about airline economics. This is what led to the age 60 rule in the first place. I'd recommend doing some further research on the topic and I think that most of will agree that the airlines simply want a way to be able to terminate legally the most highly paid and marginal employees (Marginal refers to their cost/benefit, not their skill level). Some of the most lauded airline executives of their time are to blame, along with one of the most obvious cases of government corruption and colusion. Now, nearly two generations later, the debate has re-emrged and it's would seem that many of the people that are debating aren't even aware of the history behind the original rule!
I'm behind any effort to extend the retirement age to when we are at least eligible for Medicare (age 62?). That would seem to be a reasonable compromise. I know that ALPA is trying to get legislation passed that would extend pilot's medical benefits through age 62. I think the airline industry will go with cheapest solution. I'm not sure what that is, but I think the bottom-line is going to rule.
Finally, I think that there is no substitute for experience in any field. Some of the top surgeons in this country are over 60 years old. Along with many industry and government leaders. Saying that one day someone is perfectly fine and fit to fly one day and the next day is not is ridiculous and defies logic.

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

 

[Tyro]

Kaman makes an excellent point. Retirement. Not everyone will make the majors. If many of us are to be left in the regional carriers earning a salary that does not reasonably permit building an adequate retirement – what of the 60-65 ‘gap.’ Particularly as those same lawmakers are currently debating delaying the eligibility age further.

This dilemna should gin up a few wry jokes.

 

[pilotyip]

Alpa = 60

Again Kaman has hit the nail on the head, it was never about health or ability, it was about economics. Back to a previous post, let the ALPA carries have the age retirement in their contracts, since they voted that is what they like. Let the rest of us work for a living until we can retire. Put me back in the DC-9

 

[LarryinTN]

what of the 60-65 ‘gap.’

You get another job.

 

[MD-11 Pilot]

I have flown with senior captains on the MD-11 lately. Four out of five were against raising the age 60 rule. What needs to change is how retirement is paid not the age 60 rule. Why would age 62/65/67 be any better? That is age discrimination too....It's all about retirement. Some senior guys are pretty smart about financial planning...others are not. Age 55 is not the time to build a million dollar home and mortgage $800,000!!! Then complain that you may not have a job in five years.

It was a great rule when you were 30/40 years old..it was a great rule when you were a junior captain...Now it is a great rule for folks that are in your shoes...20 years later.

 

[Flying Freddie]

The way I look at it is that if the age is increased to 65 it will give all of us time to have one more wife before retirement. That alone makes it worth it.