F16 and a Heavy

[maverick_fp00]

My friend goes to the Air Force Academy and she was telling me that most people want to fly a Heavy, and if he/she goes the fighter rough everybody seems to want the F16. Does anybody know if this is true and if so, why does everybody want the F16? She was even saying that nobody wants the Eagle.

Thanks

 

[JPAtki]

I've been told that if you want to have a civilian career as an airline pilot you should fly heavies in the AF b/c that gives you the
best experience. Apparently the airlines look for pilots of heavies and not fighters. I'm just throwing this out there, I personally do not think people go into the AF just to get a civilian job 10 years down the line, seems to me there are better ways if all you want is to be an airline pilot.

 

[Alaskawannabe]

I agree with your assesment on there being easier ways to get to the airlines instead of the military especially now with the long pay back required. I disagree with your opinion on the airlines not wanting fighter guys however. The airlines look for pilots with high-quality experience no matter what the airframe. Heavy drivers, fighter types, regional pilots, cargo haulers all do well at the majors. Every major airline out there is full of AF, Navy, and Marine TacAir guys as well as cargo, bomber, and tanker pilots. Take a look at some of the posts on this board and you'll see a good mix of pilots from all backgrounds having equal success (or lack of it these days!)

 

[Toro]

WTFO?

My friend...was telling me that most people want to fly a Heavy, and if he/she goes the fighter rough everybody seems to want the F16

Your friend is an idiot. People's preferences change constantly, but from what I saw as a student and instructor, the number of people wanting heavies has always been about equal to or less than those wanting to fly fighters. The reasons are numerous, but generally those who want heavies do so because of the perceived lifestyle. I say perceived because many times heavy guys are deployed and away from their families just as much, or more than fighter guys. As far as everybody wanting F-16s, that's a crock, too. In terms of percentage most people get F-16s because that is the airframe that has the most FTU classes and highest overall numbers. If anything, most of the guys I saw come through UPT leaned towards Eagles.

I've been told that if you want to have a civilian career as an airline pilot you should fly heavies in the AF b/c that gives you the best experience.

Not necessarily. It gives you experience that more closely parallels what you will be doing in the airlines, but I've seen plenty of fighter guys get picked up with the airlines. One argument I heard from somebody who had just been hired was that heavy time isn't necessarily all pilot-in-command time or even actual hands on time (autopilot) versus fighter time.

 

[talondriver]

I've been told that if you want to have a civilian career as an airline pilot you should fly heavies in the AF b/c that gives you the
best experience.

Then who ever told you this needs to tell the forty-odd bros in my squadron that fly for one of the majors (oh...and have a fighter background) that they should quit their airline job because they don't rate flying a heavy. RIIIIIGHT!!
That rumor was started by some heavy person who wanted a fighter but graduated at the bottom of his/her class in pilot training. We hear from our students in T-38s that some T-37 IPs with tanker/airlift backgrounds were telling them that if they want airline jobs they need to go T-1. What a crock!!

 

[Purple Haze]

...most people want to fly a Heavy, and if he/she goes the fighter rough everybody seems to want the F16. Does anybody... --- ...why does everybody want the F16? She was even saying that nobody wants the Eagle.

Who knows? Fighter lifestyle is much more intense than heavys. Airlift is comparatively laid back and you get to spend crew rests in a multitude of places a fighter pilot will never go, plus you have inflight meals and a flush toilet. However, fighter pilots have a lifestyle beyond compare -- especially in the air -- (work hard, play hard). Your chances of successfully completing the training are higher in heavys (this should be obvious).

Also don't know why the F16 preference, but many see the F16 as a more hands-on "see and shoot" low altitude fighter. Perception is, as the world's premier air superiority fighter, the F15 spends more time at altitude engaging distant targets. I'm sure this is a flawed perception -- but none the less, it is a common one (not mine, of course).

As for airline hiring, I am not aware of a major airline that dislikes fighter pilots. An airline will consider a lower-hours fighter and a higher-hours heavy equal (some favor fighter pilots). A potential future airline career should have nothing to do with a personal decision to fly a fighter or a heavy. You need to do what makes you happy.

 

[fredflyer]

If you are flying military to eventually get to an ariline job, I don't think it really matters what you fly, it's probably all a wash. Fighter/Heavy, there are good and bad pilots from every community. I think the perception from someone that hasn't been through the hiring/application process is that a heavy may give you the same type of experience as you would get flying for an airline, and a hiring comittee (sp?) may look at that more favorably, but reality that I have seen (and I by no means am an expert in knowing what an airline is looking for) is that, across the board, one does not have an advantage over another. Some airlines may appear to favor one or another, but I think in the end, it's a wash. In my new-hire class, there were just as many heavy guys as fighter guys. The only difference is that the fighter guys got on with less time than the ones who flew heavies, and that's probably for two reasons: first, all their time is PIC (so the heavy pilot and the fighter pilot probably get hired on with an equal amount of PIC time), and second, they usually log less time per year than their heavy counterparts, and our airline sees that and adjust the requirements accordingly.

 

[talondriver]

Does anybody know if this is true and if so, why does everybody want the F16? She was even saying that nobody wants the Eagle.

In the mid 90's (at Columbus) it seemed like students who were in a position to take an F-15C were passing them up for F-16s and A-10s...and even B-1s and KC-10s. The main reason was the "higher" wash-out rate at Tyndall (eagle RTU).

During a class career brief (where IPs from the different MWSs would talk up their aircraft to the students) an eagle drivin', patch wearin', Desert Storm vet told the studs that eagle RTU was the hardest program he ever went through...and he's a weapon school grad!! I'm sure that was enough to intimidate even the top students in that class.

 

[maverick_fp00]

Thanks for the answers.

Talondriver: That seems right.

During the end of UPT do guys from other RTU bases come and talk to you about their training program? (For instance, do any IPs come from Tyndall and tell you bout the Eagle Training)

Thanks.

 

[AlbieF15]

Eagle FTU is tough but doable.

If there are UPT dudes on the board waffling about going to the C-model, pm me with your email and we can have a serious chat.

Other sources for REAL gouge on F15 training (vice heresay) on these boards will come from Zulu, Eagleflip, and CCDiscoB.

As Tom Hanks said in A League of Their Own "Its the Hard that makes it GOOD". I know for a fact the bros in my squadron will give their very best to get you through a demanding but extremely rewarding program.

 

[talondriver]

For instance, do any IPs come from Tyndall and tell you bout the Eagle Training

maverick-

Tyndall would sent some IPs up to brief students on the mission. There was a BUFF here doing the same. Unfortunately, we seldom see the other weapon systems in here talking to studs...but that's due to a combination of money (lack of) or everyone's over in the desert.

 

[maverick_fp00]

Thanks everybody for your responses.

During spring break this year I have to take the AFOQT and the PFT for ROTC at Univ. of West Florida in Pensacola, Fl. The past few months I've been preparing myself for the PFT and I can now pass it with no problem. I've also been studying for the AFOQT with the "Military Flight Aptitude Tests" book and hopefull it helps me out, but time will tell.

Thanks again,
Nick

 

[cajun lurch]

LGPOSs and the AFOQT

For the AFOQT get the ARCO book from any bookstore. It has some pretty good study guides in it for all the services test. It worked pretty well for me and I don't have a "technical" degree.

As far as your questions on little grays, there were 30 people that started in my UPT class 2 years ago and there were only two guys that didn't want fighters. Of the 10 of us that were in T-38s only 2 wanted f-16s and one of those was so she could be stationed with her boyfriend. The same was true of one of the Eagle guys, too, but we won't talk about him. The rest was a mixture of some type of Eagle and one Hawg. The little grays were usually 3rd on there wish lists. I think your little friend is engaged in some tactical deception so she can get her own fighter. Don't believe the hype!

I've been on both sides of the fighter/heavy arguement and heavies are great in that you get to see a lot of the world, but other than Spec Ops a/c (helos and 130s) the flying is really boring, at least in my humble opinion.

seeya!

lurch

 

[CCDiscoB]

Students and IPs

One of the problems, especially in Tweets, is that there aren't enough fighter pilots knocking sense into these students. Fighter pilots are in demand but they are really needed in the T-37, otherwise you get entire flights run by heavy pilots. (I've seen it its not pretty) No offense to the heavy drivers, but if all you hear is how great the 141/135/C5 is then of course you're going to be excited about it. Unfortunately we don’t have the T-38 track to show these “fence sitters” what life in the fast lane is like. Students are leaving Tweets and going to the T-1 with a question mark over their heads. It’s a shame in my opinion.

The same thing is happening at the Academy. Fighter pilots have been prohibited, in the past, from leaving the cockpit to teach at the Academy because of pilot demand. So all the cadets hear is how great life is as a heavy pilot.

 

[cajun lurch]

We had one fighter guy in my tweet flight. He was an attached reservist. Our 38 flight was hardly any better. We had no assigned fighter guys and 3-4 attached guys, half reservist, who were fighter guys. FAIPs are by far carrying the load at UPT bases, or Laughlin anyway. Fortunately we had a lot of lean-forward types in the top of our class, the best of which was a E-model retread. So that and several bottles of Jeremiah Weed at the O-club attracted a crowd that provided appropriate mentorship!

ATTACK!!!

Lurch

 

[bssthound]

Hey, Lurch!!
You wouldn't happen to be flying Hogs @ the New Orleans Reserve Unit and keeping company with one of our female ASA first officers would you??

As far as the fighter/heavy airline argument I don't think there's any difference. I've flown in two Guard/Reserve units that were full of airline pilots. The fighter guys obviously don't have as much total time BUT have probably never eaten a box lunch in their aircraft except while crossing the pond and have never logged "other" time, which is time in the aircraft but not at the controls. Read some of the more detailed post by Eagleflip, Albie, and the other fast movers and tell me if you think they'd have any trouble being handed a computer flight plan, plugging it into the FMS, and turning the autopilot on during climbout. Oh, and disengaging the autopilot on descent and landing on a 10,000' runway.

 

[Slug]

Oh boy, here it is again

You fighter guys are funny. Not right, not wrong; just funny.

 

[Skyrunner]

Goodfellas!

Slug,

I'm waitin' for CCDiscoB to come out sayin':

From Tommy Devito (Joe Pesci)

"But, I'm funny how? Funny like a clown? I amuse you? I make you laugh? I'm here to amuse you?"

"How am I funny, like a clown? What is so funny about me? What the @*^$%#& is so funny about me? Tell me. Tell me what's funny."

Take care and fly safe

SR

 

[CCDiscoB]

Funny

You fighter guys are funny

What do you MEAN FUNNY?

 

[bssthound]

Couldn't resist it!!

For those who saw "Slingblade:"

PERFECT "Karl" voice:

"You mean funny queer, not funny ha-ha!!"

 

[kybur]

Well, I think the F16 may look a little better than the F15, but if your goal is the airlines, why choose a single over a twin?

 

[Draginass]

What??? "Twin" doesn't mean squat. An F-15 is centerline thrust and for any practical purposes an airline doesn't care. At least in the past they really don't care whether a military pilot flew an F-16 or a C-5. It's the person that was important.

FWIW, I wouldn't count on a viable airline career at this point. This industry is fundamentally changing and only the next few years will tell if it will be worth doing. If I had to make a decision today, I'd steer clear of the airline industry and start learning something that will be much more rewarding and interesting. Almost too late for me, but not for you. Flying is a great hobby and WAS a great profession, but not anymore.

 

[Hootie9750]

kybur, I'm no military expert , but you sound like my uneducated commercial flight instructor.

him "If you go into the military to fly an f16, you'll never fly commercially . You might as well putt around in a c150 cause the airlines only care about twin time."

him "besides, how old are you"?
me "21"
him "yeah, your WAY to old for the military. they want their fighter pilots right out of high school."

lol

 

[cajun lurch]

Too old?

Tell your CFI friend that I was 28 when I got my wings and an A-10 and another guy in my class was 28 and is flying F-15s.

ATTACK!

Lurch

 

[Slug]

Agree

Mailman has it dead on. I've flown pointy white supersonics and humongous grey aircraft. I'm with my second carrier and all I can say is other than what Mailman stated- it doesn't matter what kind of plane you flew, how cool you looked, or whether it was a twin C/L thrust or not. Once you get there no one worries about where you came from.....your war stories are just a little different. In my new hire class we've got:

5 fighter pilots - 3 Navy, 2 AF
7 heavy drivers - 2 Navy, 1 CG, 4 AF
8 Civilian - 2 Part 121, 4 Regionals, 1 Corp, 1 Civilian Mix


All great guys who will fit in great with SWA.


Slug