F/A Blogger Controversy

[FlyOver]

I got this topic from a flyertalk.com thread: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=359681&page=1&pp=15

Should airline emplyees be allowed to keep blogs?

This flight attendant was suspended because of her blog:

http://queenofsky.journalspace.com/

Don't airline people have the same rights to free speech as everybody else?

FO

 

[Jedi_Cheese]

Tough sh1t?

A M$ guy got fired for letting it be known that they buy Apple computers (there was an Mac box in the backround of one of the pictures). I think there have been several times where this has happened, and the employee hasn't come out with a job yet.

 

[bigD]

Don't airline people have the same rights to free speech as everybody else?

FO

Dunno about the airlines, but back in my programming days, I worked on several games for a large company most known for its animation studios. Anyway, before working with them, we all had to sign very long contracts stating that we cannot say anything negative about the company in a public forum of any type. I no longer write code for them, but I'm still bound to that contract, and will continue to be indefinitely.

So free speech can't always be assumed.

 

[A Squared]

I think that without a doubt, the first amendment to the constitution is the most misunderstood bit of law ever written. Has anyone ever actually read hte first amendment? Anyone, anyone at all ??? Bueller???

OK, well, let's start out by actually reading the words. Here it is:

[size=+1]Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. [/size]


OK, take a second look at those first five words again, those are important.

It says "Congress shall make no law....." that's all the first amendment prohibits. Congress making laws against free speech. It protects you from having your speech supressed by the government . Now, the more astute may have noticed that Delta is not the government. Notice that it does not say "Delta shall formulate no employee policies......."


The first amendment is completely irrelevant to this suituation. Yes, flight attendents are perfectly free to publish Blogs, and congress may not prohibit this, the constitution guarnetees this. Delta however is perfectly free to fire the flight attendent. The constitution is silent on the matter of employers firing employees for public speech.

 

[English]

Queenofsky is a poster here, FWIW. She posted some stuff a few months ago.

 

[ThomasR]

Dunno about the airlines, but back in my programming days, I worked on several games for a large company most known for its animation studios. Anyway, before working with them, we all had to sign very long contracts stating that we cannot say anything negative about the company in a public forum of any type. I no longer write code for them, but I'm still bound to that contract, and will continue to be indefinitely.

So free speech can't always be assumed.

The contract is illegal, not enforceable. They can sue for libel or slander but they will lose if what you say is true and not malicious.

Also a company can be sued for prejudice if a firing is intended to stop free association within the company. Labor unions will fight like a wild animal to secure freedom in the work place keeping management from breaking fair labor laws. You have a legal right in any company to associate with other workers and talk about common interests.

I think she might have a case.

However, going on national radio or television assuming a role as a company representative by wearing a uniform or announcing the employer is beyond the scope of prudence. I don't know about the Internet...........She covered alot of personal territory on the blog and the company ID might be considered incidental. The company has a right to protect its image and if her personal life is considered outside the company image they may have cause.???????????

Get a Jury.

 

[Ailerongirl]

Queenofsky is a poster here, FWIW. She posted some stuff a few months ago.

I was under the impression that she posted here only becasue she recieved a lot of hits to her page from FlightInfo?

 

[100LL... Again!]

A squared is correct.

You can sign away your rights to free speech on a particular issue.

It can also be imposed.

Anyone ever hear of a gag order?

Or a non-disclosure agreement?

Or a sealed judgement?

 

[sweptback]

Whatever happens with her case, she's pretty stupid and certainly didn't help herself any.

After looking at her site, in about 5 minutes I came to the following conclusions:
She lives in Austin, is based in Atlanta, and works for Delta. She doesn't like ASA too much because they bumped her off a few flights when she didn't follow the rules about checking in on time.

Not to mention, she posted her picture in uniform. Not only that, but she has her picture up in several places as well. Come on lady! I'm all for free speech, but you have to be smart about it if you do what she did.

Also, she has made comments about tampering with the cocktails of the gate agent that bumped her, as well as detailing the exact dates, times, and trips that she works, along with comments about the crew.

If she was completely anonymous (and not this half-azzed stuff that she's doing), and they found her out somehow and did the same thing, then I'd be more up in arms. But she's so stupid she almost deserves to get caught.

 

[bigD]

The contract is illegal, not enforceable. They can sue for libel or slander but they will lose if what you say is true and not malicious.

That may be true, Thomas. I'm not a lawyer, and at the time was just a programmer working for a company looking to land a pretty lucrative contract. We got the contract, and did a lot of games for them. I don't think anyone wanted to rock the boat.

But really, that's probably what they're counting on. I hear their legal department is supposedly pretty hard core and well funded. Back then, one of our artists came up with a concept for a series of games and animated television shows - a pretty good concept at that. As a company we worked on it a bit - made some storyboards, demos, etc. We decided to pitch it to the company I've been talking about here, and they really seemed receptive to it. Right around that time, the tech industry collapsed, and the idea was ultimately rejected to "focus their money on their core business".

Well, wouldn't you know it, but two years later the same concept that we pitched shows up on televisions everywhere. It wasn't just the same general idea - the animation style was identical, the characters and vehicles were similar, and the pilot episode had pretty much exactly the same plot as our original script. Legal options were persued, and after seeing the work we had done, were told we had a pretty strong case. But we were also told not to do anything, because the opposing legal team is simply too strong, and we lacked the funding to really go after them.

Many of us (myself included) tried to convince the originating artist to pursue this anyway, but within a couple of weeks he was contacted by the legal team of the company who ripped off his idea, and was told something that apparently scared the hell out of him. He told us to drop it completely, and he refuses to speak of it again.

So who knows what happened, but it's the kind of situation where it's essentially impossible for the little guy to stand up to the big guy. I'd imagine that even if the contract I signed (which I still have a copy of somewhere - I'll have to dig it out) isn't enforceable, they'd have the legal means to shut me up somehow.

 

[QueenofSky]

Queen Of Sky Is Here To Save The Day!!!

Thanks for the supportive comments, guys!

*scratches head*

-the poor, distressed and downtrodden Queen of Sky

 

[ThomasR]

bigD

Wow man, that is heavy business. It sounds what you were up against was "right to ownership" which is enforceable by contract. Work for a company dealing in ideas they hold the right to own anything you think of while employed. That is way it is prudent to hold out key elements when making a pitch. Reveal the whole story when they meet your price.

100LL....Again!
A squared is correct.
You can sign away your rights to free speech on a particular issue.
It can also be imposed.
Anyone ever hear of a gag order?
Or a non-disclosure agreement?
Or a sealed judgement?

"particular issue" is the key element. The contract has to be specific, just saying you can't talk about the company is not enforceable. Non disclosure ageements are for a specific time, gag orders are judgements made by courts to protect someone safety as are sealed judgements.

A company can't tell you to shut up or else. Not legally anyway. Big time lawyers and deep pocket corporations can make you dance on you head if they want to. Does not make it legal though.

 

[bigD]

Thomas - I see. But what's the definition of employed? Say I'm an employee of Company A, and Company B contracts A to write games for them. If Company A decides to pitch a game idea to B, does that allow B to run with the idea after rejecting the offer?

It's a tough situation, and my blood boils when I see Company B's show on TV, or the video games based on the show, etc etc...

 

[350DRIVER]

Q of Sky is a very nice girl, have spoken to her on numerous occasions and I can tell you that she is one of a kind.

Let's all hope that she will be back in the air very soon...

Q, I will give you a call soon, probably heading into TX next week..

my thoughts are with you.

3 5 0

 

[350DRIVER]

I cant disagree. She tries to be anonymous, but come on!

Which airline had the catering problem last week? It was posted all over the local news. What about going back to the commuter hotel room to have some "airplane wine and airplane cheese...all first class of course."???? Now she admits to stealing from the company on a public site.

She had requests for more pics of her in company uniform, in the companies airplane "showing more leg." Now she's using company property to pose for some guys fantasy.

That's what I just saw in the first couple minutes of skiming her page

Sorry, she might be a nice girl and all. She just doesn't have too much between the ears.

She didn't even mention "Delta" let alone any negative remarks with regards to the company so in reality she was merely exercising "free speech". . . The pictures showed no nudity, nothing even close to that nor was she implying anything indirectly that one could view as "bad taste". I disagree with your comments and I have done the same as well as many others who have sites.

Unfortunately she has no union to back her up and this will be problem number 1. This is nothing different than what the black MD-88 goof ball on jetcareers.com did, if you are going to signal one person out then you should go after all and no special treatment should be given to anyone.

as for the "much between the ears" comments I think you are mistaken once again, I have spoken to her quite a few times over the phone and she surely is not your "average" flight attendant.

3 5 0

 

[350DRIVER]

No, she didn't mention Delta. She did mention that her airline had catering issues because of the possibilty of BK.
Now, when I woke up last week and heard on the morning news that a Delta flight that was leaving NY for Europe left with no food, its pretty easy to figure out.
I never said she was taking nude photos. But what she did say that a person requested HER pics, in the AIRPLANE, in HER UNIFORM, SHOWING MORE LEG. She said that it will be taken care of.

Just because you have phone sex with her, doesn't mean you have to stick up for her.

She didn't mention Delta, no nudity, nothing negative about the employer, etc, etc, but since I requested more uniform pictures means we have phone sex right?? Wrong my friend....


The only reason I am sticking up for her is the simple fact that she did nothing wrong and nothing was posted, said, mentioned, etc, out of bad taste with regards to Delta.

try again....

3 5 0

 

[minitour]

She didn't mention Delta, no nudity, nothing negative about the employer, etc, etc, but since I requested more uniform pictures means we have phone sex right?? Wrong my friend....


The only reason I am sticking up for her is the simple fact that she did nothing wrong and nothing was posted, said, mentioned, etc, out of bad taste with regards to Delta.

try again....

3 5 0

DUDE!!

You're having phone sex with her? Sweet!

 

[QueenofSky]

Hmmm...

Word up to Queen of Sky's friend 350Driver! You're the best!

And regarding all this controversy about what I wrote on my blog... much of it is FICTION! And Queen of Sky is an alter ego, who BTW never meant to offend anybody at her workplace.

-Q of S

 

[ThomasR]

bigD

Thomas - I see. But what's the definition of employed? Say I'm an employee of Company A, and Company B contracts A to write games for them. If Company A decides to pitch a game idea to B, does that allow B to run with the idea after rejecting the offer?

It's a tough situation, and my blood boils when I see Company B's show on TV, or the video games based on the show, etc etc...

It is not ethical and unless Company A has documentation showing ownership of the game, Company B can run the scam. Company A was under contract to meet a specific design which was rejected, that design is still under contract as long as the contract is valid. Rejecting the idea does not void the contract but using the desgn at a later date without meeting the terms of the contract is a violation.

Company A should be very careful to express only the most limited information to Comapny B until an agreement is made that the project is acceptable. There is lots of wiggle room for negotiation to finalize the agreement. Many college coursed are devoted to specialized negotiation tactics and contract management. Sometimes it takes months of reworking, rewriting and reintroducing an idea before you get an agreement.

You can't patent an idea. So many companies will take the initiative from someone else and change it just enough to call claim to it. That is sleezy to do but they do it anyway. It kinda makes you want to strap on a bomb and blow the place up....

 

[A Squared]

Queenie,

Please, don't insult our intelligence and have the backbone to stand up and admit your mistakes. It seems you think you can flutter your eyelashes, squeeze out a few crocodile tears, and everyone will pat you on your pretty little head and it'll all be ok. I suspect that you've skated through much of life in this fashion. I don't think it's going to work this time. Look, not everyone is going to follow you around like 350, acting like some pathetic lapdog, panting, drooling, and begging for pictures with "more leg". I think that most mature adults, after reading your narcissistic website, would see you as a vain, self absorbed, and shallow young lady, who has deservedly gotten in trouble for being publicly unpleasant about her company and her co-workers.

>>>>>>what I wrote on my blog... much of it is FICTION!

Uhhhhhhuuuhhh, right, and you were so dedicated to making your "fiction" seem realistic that you actually travelled to those places you wrote about in your "fictional" accounts and took pictures of yourself, mugging for the camera and straddling the natives on the beaches, just so you could post them next to your "fictional" accounts. And it just was the wildest coincidence that this "fictional" airline was almost exactly like Delta in every detail you describe, and it was just the most unbelivable coincidence that you happened to work for Delta? Please, like I said, don't insult our intelligence. Nobody's going to buy the "it was just fiction" horse$hit, especially Delta's lawyers.

>>>>>who BTW never meant to offend anybody at her workplace.

Right, you called your co-workers "b1tches" but you never meant to insult them. Grow up.


Let's have an informal listing of what you've done on your little website:

You've expressed your utter contempt for you company's customers.

You've publicly called co-workers bitches, I think there was something about another flight attendent being a fat-ass too.

You've gossipped relentlessly about things like; flight attendents being completely blitzed on layovers and hanging all over pilots, which pilots are having affairs, and the size of the penises of the guys you slept with. and if the names you give are fictional, the episodes are listed by trip and date which would make it simple to identify the crewmwmbers involved.

As wayback pointed out, you brag of stealing wine and cheese from the company, I also noted mention of "leftover" caviar.

You've made it abundently clear to even the most casual reader which airline you work for, who you are and where you live. You even give your name.

Now, let's think about this. If I can find this with a little bit of casual browsing, whe do you think Delta's personnel department is going to find when they do a detailed study the copies of your website that the folks over at http://www.forensics.com/ downloaded for them? I'll bet it will be a very brief but interesting termination hearing.

I gotta ask you, what ever made you think you *wouldn't* get fired over this?

 

[A Squared]

[originally posted by 350Driver]
" nor was she implying anything indirectly that one could view as "bad taste"

OK, 350, you've got me wondering; if talking about the size of her ex-boyfiends dick, calling her co-workers bitches, and discussing the sexual escapades of her fellow crewmembers with enough personal detail to make them readily identifiable isn't "bad taste" , what exactly *would* be "bad taste" in your book?

 

[350DRIVER]

OK, 350, I gotta ask you; if talking about the size of her ex-boyfiends dick, calling her co-workers bitches, and discussing the indiscretions of her crewmembers with enough detail to make them readily identifiable isn't "bad taste" , what exactly *would* be "bad taste" in your book?

Yes, but "Delta" was not mentioned anywhere in any place in her writings on that site so a lot is left up in the air for speculation on the reader's part. If the above mentioned company was written in there then I could see why she would be in this trouble but if you choose to signal one person out then you should go after all that have put up pictures online while in company attire, I can think of many from just Delta who have put up sites online. Did she show nudity? Did she directly slam Delta? Did she mention the co-workers' names? Did she have any intentions of redirecting potential pax to another airline due to her distaste of her airline?. Did she ever compromise safety? I don't think she did any of the above my friend. I have seen much much worse than this site but without a union to represent her I would think management is going to go full steam and not hold back, atleast she will have a nice lawsuit against them.

3 5 0

ps> if it makes you feel any better A I never have never and will never have to beg for a single thing. I think that Alaska flying is getting to your head.

 

[A Squared]

Yes, but "Delta" was not mentioned anywhere in any place in her writings on that site so a lot is left up in the air for speculation on the reader's part.

Oh, give us a break, really 350, you're trying to defend a completely indefensible position. Even though she had pictures of herself in a Delta uniform on Delta planes and gave enough company information that it was completely obvious which airline she was employed by .... you claim that because she didn't include the word "Delta" She could have been working for *any* airline, right? OK bright guy, list five other US international carriers which were teetereing on the edge of bankruptcy in September and sending international flights out with no catering? There must be a whole list of those, Huh?

if you choose to signal one person out

signal? OK the first time I assumed it was a typo, now I see it's merely illiteracy. You don't "signal" someone out for special treatment, you "single" them out.

Did she mention the co-workers' names?

Well, actually, yes she did.

I would think management is going to go full steam and not hold back,

I would think so too

if it makes you feel any better A I never have never and will never have to beg for a single thing.

Right, that's why you were begging for pictures of her legs, because you never begged for anything in your life.

I think that Alaska flying is getting to your head.

Naahhhh, it's just making me cranky and less tolerant of fools.

SOooo, tell us 350, is that you on her webpage, the one she says "looks like he is constipated" sitting in the left seat of, why I believe it's a Beech 350! Yeah, that's right, the only guy shallow enough to take her up on her "hottest pilots" challenge" (She had only one contestant) The guy she was laughing at because her friend rated you a 6 out of 10? Was that you 350driver?

What a complete and utter loser. You are truly pathetic.

 

[350DRIVER]

A Squared,

I can see why you are a tad bitter due to the lack of a career that you have had thus far, if I was stuck flying what you are currently flying and had no other options I would probably have your same attitude. Your total time, equipment, and location pretty much says it all.


I feel for you man, guess you got weeded out somewhere along the way...

keep your chin up-

A piece of **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** flying **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ed up airplanes in Alaska, what a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ing looser you are man..

I won't waste the time....

3 5 0

 

[A Squared]

So, that was you "looking constipated"

 

[bigD]

Sorry to interrupt you two kicking each other in the crotch, but I was curious if this "hottest pilots" site you speak of included chicks? I couldn't seem to find the link on the FA's web site.


And STUCK flying a DC-6? Holy mother of sh*t, man - I'd give anything to fly a DC-6!

 

[A Squared]

Sorry to interrupt you two kicking each other in the crotch,

No, no, come on in, we were just finishing up. In fact, I think we're done.

but I was curious if this "hottest pilots" site you speak of included chicks? I couldn't seem to find the link on the FA's web site.

Nope sorry, there is no "hottest pilots" site. There was a "hottest flight attendents" thread on this site.
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=38434

350 posted a link to Queenofthe sky's website. She followed the link back to this site and requested that *we* submit pictures for "hottest pilot" Apparenty, she got exactly one submission, and apparently, judging from 350's reaction, I was correct in surmising that he was the sole submitter. Someplace on her site, I can't remmeber which page, is his pic and the 6 out of 10 rating and the constipation comment. Which is a very roundabout way of saying "sorry, no hot chick pilot pictures".

And STUCK flying a DC-6? Holy mother of sh*t, man - I'd give anything to fly a DC-6!

Yeah, well after being outed as the mystery consitipated pilot, he had to lash out at something, and DC-6's and Alaska was all he could think of. Actually, Alaska is pretty cool too.

 

[350DRIVER]

No, no, come on in, we were just finishing up. In fact, I think we're done.

Nope sorry, there is no "hottest pilots" site. There was a "hottest flight attendents" thread on this site.
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=38434

350 posted a link to Queenofthe sky's website. She followed the link back to this site and requested that *we* submit pictures for "hottest pilot" Apparenty, she got exactly one submission, and apparently, judging from 350's reaction, I was correct in surmising that he was the sole submitter. Someplace on her site, I can't remmeber which page, is his pic and the 6 out of 10 rating and the constipation comment. Which is a very roundabout way of saying "sorry, no hot chick pilot pictures".

Yeah, well after being outed as the mystery consitipated pilot, he had to lash out at something, and DC-6's and Alaska was all he could think of. Actually, Alaska is pretty cool too.

Lash out?!?! That is funny since I was making light of all you have accomplished thus far, sad but true ~.... Having 5000+ hours and all you have to show for it is being a DC-6 captain flying boxes?!?!, **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** you sure have accomplished a lot in this industry(a tad of sarcasm intended). The only point I was making is that it is quite evident that you were weeded out long ago so I can see why you have to resort to your pissing and moaning. I probably would be just as bitter if not more so than you if I got stuck where you are at present day..

enjoy Alaska, doesn't look like you will be moving on to any "greener" pastures anytime soon

3 5 0

 

[BankAccount=0$]

What a breath of fresh air...... A good ol' Flightinfo.com smackdown and not a single mention about Mesa??? what the h*ll is this world coming to, has the Earth shifted on it's axis or something??

You guys might want to redirect your energy towards a different F/A though. I happen to know of a girl who just became a F/A at ExpressJet who is a swinger (don't ask me how I know), even a new-hire should be able to get her in the sack on an overnight..............

"we now return you to your regularly scheduled smackdown..............."

 

[A Squared]

You again? You said you were't going to waste the time ... yet, here you are yapping the same old stuff, like we didn't hear you the first time. Musta stung like a bitch to keep you coming back when you said you were leaving. Don't you have some flight attendent to stalk?