Expressjet

[PennEagle]

Sorry - more questions about Expressjet

1. Is there a training contract?
2. Current size of the pilot group?
3. Projected size of the pilot group?
4. Current status of flow through to CAL with CAL's current hiring. (I'm talking to lots of XJT crews and some tell me high numbers, some tell me none at all)
5. Current projected upgrade time, in light of the answer to question 4.

TIA

 

[CLE145CA]

Sorry - more questions about Expressjet

1. Is there a training contract?
2. Current size of the pilot group?
3. Projected size of the pilot group?
4. Current status of flow through to CAL with CAL's current hiring. (I'm talking to lots of XJT crews and some tell me high numbers, some tell me none at all)
5. Current projected upgrade time, in light of the answer to question 4.

TIA

1. No

2. Approximately 2500 (2425 and up are in training according to June bid packs)

3. Approximately 2800 (based on 274 aircraft an no other orders/options/deals)

4. Flow through with CAL is over. There are between 150 and 200 preferrential interview pilots that have yet to transition over to CAL under jobs previously promised. The transition rate is anywhere between 8 and 35 a month right now, but the lower end appears to be the number for now. XJT ALPA is pressing this issue since CAL is now hiring off the street guys ahead of our pilots who were promised jobs already.

5. Upgrade depends on four. However, once all those guys are gone the upgrade time will be slow and depend on normal attrition or other airline hiring or other business opportunities that might come along for XJT. Getting hired today I would expect upgrade time in the four-five year range if things slow to a halt here.

The last airplane comes on property spring of 2006. There are 250 airplanes right now, so that leaves 24 more for delivery.

These are just my best educated guess for our current situation.

 

[Nova]

1. No training contract

2. Our last published seniority list showed 2600 pilots. If you include the folks in the training pipeline we probably have about 2700-2800 pilots.

3. Numbers are floating around anywhere between 3100-3700 pilots.

4. There is no flow-through with CAL anymore. We have pilots here that were interviewed and hired by CAL a few years ago. No one seems to know how many there are and how many of them are going to accept the offer. I've heard 250 pilots with about half going over. How many will go over per month seems to change monthly. Latest number is 8 pilots/month.

5. Upgrade time for a new hire is impossible to tell right now. Someone hired this summer is going to need about 1000 pilots to leave ahead of them before they'll hold captain. Feel free to make up some numbers to get an idea of how long it will take. 10 a month will give you 9 years.

 

[Nova]

Looks like my numbers are a bit different. Just goes to show how much uncertainty there is.

 

[PennEagle]

Excellent responses. Thankyou

 

[Flechas]

The rumor I heard was about 8 newhires and 8 upgrades per month untill the fall. At that rate it would take me about 7 years to upgrade...

 

[RSRVWINDSURFR]

The rumor I heard was about 8 newhires and 8 upgrades per month untill the fall. At that rate it would take me about 7 years to upgrade...

Don't buy that. A-we are understaffed as it is. B-that wouldn't even cover new aircraft. C-8 to ??? pilots are going to CAL every month. D. We probably lose 4 pilots a month to other airlines.

I definately think it will slow down here real soon, but I seriously doubt those #'s are correct.

 

[Flechas]

Don't buy that. A-we are understaffed as it is. B-that wouldn't even cover new aircraft. C-8 to ??? pilots are going to CAL every month. D. We probably lose 4 pilots a month to other airlines.
I definately think it will slow down here real soon, but I seriously doubt those #'s are correct.

I really hope you are right, I don't want to be at the bottom of the list for a long time (I'm about 2100 right now). Not because of jet PIC but because of job security and QOL.

 

[PennEagle]

So with no special flow through to CAL for Expressjet pilots, the exit rate, and therefor the upgrade rate, will simply depend on both normal hiring by the Majors and attrition.

Do SW JB AT et al. show any marked preference toward XJT folks vs. the DCI, MESA, CHQ folks?

 

[Nova]

Don't buy that. A-we are understaffed as it is. B-that wouldn't even cover new aircraft. C-8 to ??? pilots are going to CAL every month. D. We probably lose 4 pilots a month to other airlines.

I definately think it will slow down here real soon, but I seriously doubt those #'s are correct.

I think they'll run our staffing lean rather than fat. We don't have a staffing ratio that would force them to properly staff us so they can't run it as they wish. Plus there are a lot of pilots in the current training pipeline that will help the staffing when they make it to the line. That's why they can afford to only do upgrades for 2 months, because so many FO's have/were trained for the anticipation of CAL taking 34/month but that never happened.

This last perm bid had no growth (and we're still taking jets) and will have about 80 double bids on it. There are probably double that amount of new hires in some stage of traning right now. It looks like they can absorb those loses pretty easily.

 

[Ben Franklin]

4. Latest number is 8 pilots/month.

This is totally false.

NOVA is not in a position to know what "the deal" is as he is not one of the preferential interview pilots that has been recieving email updates from the beginning from CAL/XJT ALPA.

Anyone who claims to be in the group and who is giving information out is in direct conflict with the MEC's directive that the information be kept within the group until a solid deal has been acheived.

Again, 8/month to CAL is totally false.


Sincerely,

B. Franklin

 

[Flechas]

This is totally false.


Sincerely,

B. Franklin

Elaborate on that.

 

[Whiskerbizkit]

We have ALWAYS been understaffed and that will NEVER change! I saw XR 180 the other day so that leaves us with 20 more planes coming which will result in 200 more pilots needed. Not all PIGS are going to go over to CAL. I think things are coming to a grinding halt soon! Right now the must junior CA has been here for 4 1/2 + years and thats probably the way it will stay.

 

[ERfly]

We're up to 182 now.

 

[Nova]

This is totally false.

NOVA is not in a position to know what "the deal" is as he is not one of the preferential interview pilots that has been recieving email updates from the beginning from CAL/XJT ALPA.

Anyone who claims to be in the group and who is giving information out is in direct conflict with the MEC's directive that the information be kept within the group until a solid deal has been acheived.

Again, 8/month to CAL is totally false.


Sincerely,

B. Franklin

Sorry there Mr. Holier than Thou. Just passing on the word us Non-PIG scum were granted. Mr. Sailor is banking his staffing on numbers closer to what I stated. This comes from training class visits he's been giving each week. This 8 pilots per month came from one only a few days ago.

For now I think the 8/month is the official word. Your position is based on their being a negotiation of a higher rate, more power to you. Perhaps the future will be different but staffing plans won't alter until its official.

 

[Captain Overs]

Sorry there Mr. Holier than Thou. Just passing on the word us Non-PIG scum were granted. Mr. Sailor is banking his staffing on numbers closer to what I stated. This comes from training class visits he's been giving each week. This 8 pilots per month came from one only a few days ago.

For now I think the 8/month is the official word. Your position is based on their being a negotiation of a higher rate, more power to you. Perhaps the future will be different but staffing plans won't alter until its official.

You can always believe what management says when they come to training classes. I agree with Mr. Franklin. I would think CAL ALPA would have better info than the company and if they are staying tight lipped about it then why would Mr. Sailor have better info if nothing has been set in stone. Go back to your rumor mill.

 

[Ben Franklin]

Sorry there Mr. Holier than Thou. Just passing on the word us Non-PIG scum were granted. Mr. Sailor is banking his staffing on numbers closer to what I stated. This comes from training class visits he's been giving each week. This 8 pilots per month came from one only a few days ago.

For now I think the 8/month is the official word. Your position is based on their being a negotiation of a higher rate, more power to you. Perhaps the future will be different but staffing plans won't alter until its official.

Holier than thou?

Dude, you haven't even held LRJ CA yet but you are the one who is spouting rumors on the message boards from the gospel according to the XJT training center???

If there was anything OFFICIAL, don't you think that XJT ALPA would know it by now, too?

You're the one coming off as holier than thou when you claim to have the OFFICIAL word when there is no OFFICIAL word yet.



Logic:

1.As of 5/10/05, no one working in the XJT training center knows how many pref pilots CAL will take each month.

2.The XJT training center people talk to NOVA like they are all the best of friends around the water cooler while he's in town for a spell-The XJT training center imparts its knowledge onto NOVA.

Therefore:
3.NOVA doesn't know how many pref pilots CAL will take each month.

I haven't seen this much confusion and rumor since Adams put a fake brand on Dalrymple's horse in retalliation for those 24 nominations that Dalrymple negated... man that was a hoot!


Sincerely,

B. Franklin

 

[Nova]

Given that PS is responsible for establishing the staffing numbers it doesn't matter what XJTALPA has behind closed doors until they release the final offical rate to CAL. PS says that he's basing future staffing on a reduction in movement to CAL and the latest number he said he was working with was that 8 pilots/month. We went from 64 new hires a month due to the mass exodus to CAL to us stopping training for 2 months.

You are correct that no one in the training, HR, Man Power knows how the final rate of pilots going to CAL but neither does XJTALPA since it's still be negotiated. I never said that the final rate will be 8 pilots/month for the PIGS. What I did say was the latest number being used by the Planning folks was 8 pilots/month. Even CLE145CA had the same numbers:

The transition rate is anywhere between 8 and 35 a month right now, but the lower end appears to be the number for now.

Even with CAL/XJTALPA having better information it doesn't mean squat for us and future upgrades/hiring until those numbers are released. Again, it seems our near future will be dictated by a much lower attrition rate to CAL until the Union negotiates a final rate to CAL.

Mind telling me what this has to do with anything?

Dude, you haven't even held LRJ CA yet....

Like it has to do with some sort of right of passage, gives someone clairvoyance, etc. What's the next plateau? Line Holder? Senior Line Holder? Ben Franklin's Offical 3 cup dispenser? I can't wait.

Finally, I'm flattered that you spent your own time to look me up. What other exciting things do you do in your free time?

 

[Flechas]

Ben Franklin's Offical 3 cup dispenser?

Is Ben F 3 Cup?

 

[Ben Franklin]

Is Ben F 3 Cup?

I WISH!



Sincerely,

B. Franklin

 

[Flechas]

I WISH!



Sincerely,
B. Franklin

You wish? Hahaha what makes you say that?

 

[Ben Franklin]

Like it has to do with some sort of right of passage, gives someone clairvoyance, etc. What's the next plateau? Line Holder? Senior Line Holder? Ben Franklin's Offical 3 cup dispenser? I can't wait.

No, the next step is PREFERENTIAL INTERVIEW PILOT - which you have not acheived yet, so yes, there is a right of passage - it's called successfully completing the pilot selection process for an airline.

And, what it has to do with is that you are not a pref pilot. As such, you have not received (at least from ALPA) any communications regarding the process. On the other hand, the pref pilots have recieved numerous E-mails and have participated in numerous conference calls about the issue and are in relatively more of a position to know than you are.

By mentioning your seniority, I meant no disrespect, but simply an illustration to show how you aren't even in a position to know what any deal is for the preferential interview group of pilots at XJT.

Let this thread die, my friend the OFFICIAL deal will be out shortly.

P.s. - you are not "non-pig scum" as you stated in a previous post. You will be eligible for an interview at CAL per the LOA in their contract before you know it. Then, the mighty NOVA will be a PIG


Sincerely,

B. Franklin

 

[Ben Franklin]

You wish? Hahaha what makes you say that?

because he probably gets laid every night!!!! Which is way more than I can say about 'ol Ben...


Sincerely,

B. Franklin

 

[Flechas]

because he probably gets laid every night!!!! Which is way more than I can say about 'ol Ben...


Sincerely,

B. Franklin

I wouldn't think so....

 

[wahoo250]

i heard its like the double up technique....works every time. lets them know what they're in for.