ExpressJet to buy Chautauqua ?

[BoilerUP]

The rumor I'm hearing around CLE is that CHQ put a bid on the Continental flying for $200 to $300 less per hour than XJET is getting.

Of course thats the rumor around CLE. All it takes is one bitter, vindictive XJT pilot to start all sort of crazy rumors about the one airline whom its vogue to bash for "lowering the bar" if you fly an Embraer under CAL colors. I'm not accusing you of this, so don't misunderstand.

I have no idea how CHQ could bid that low and still have any ability to turn a profit. Was this bid for 2007, after the exclusive XJT agreement expires? After XJT has gotten their new industry-leading contract (that I hope with every bone in my body they get!)? As CHQ's own pilot CBA is set to expire?

Too many holes in this theory to even be considered legit. I could, however, see RJET selling Chautauqua (or only its 135/145 assets) to XJT so Republic could concentrate on the 70 & 90 seat market.

 

[mckpickle]

In talks with folks in the know.....CHQ can offer a lower price by providing a lower service. If their dispatch relyability rate were only 99% instead of XJTs 99.8% that saves them money. Things like having fewer spares on hand, more MELs, less engine spares, performing fewer mods to the a/c. All these things save money but lower the dispatch relyability rate.

They also could do the flying as some sort of code share where they share the risk. Kind of like the way feeders used to operate, ie. you get paid based on how many pax you carry or a % of the ticket price instead of a fee for departure/block hour rate.


Now in reference to the republic thing, it was my understanding that wex allowed the republic certificate to expire. And having it expire means a whole knew application process to the FAA for a 121 cert....which takes years.

 

[kntrdr]

In talks with folks in the know.....CHQ can offer a lower price by providing a lower service. If their dispatch relyability rate were only 99% instead of XJTs 99.8% that saves them money. Things like having fewer spares on hand, more MELs, less engine spares, performing fewer mods to the a/c. All these things save money but lower the dispatch relyability rate.

They also could do the flying as some sort of code share where they share the risk. Kind of like the way feeders used to operate, ie. you get paid based on how many pax you carry or a % of the ticket price instead of a fee for departure/block hour rate.


Now in reference to the republic thing, it was my understanding that wex allowed the republic certificate to expire. And having it expire means a whole knew application process to the FAA for a 121 cert....which takes years.

You know normally I would let this slide, but I feel compelled to answer back for some reason. I think I am qualified to respond as I have worked for both COEX and CHQ. Let me tell you one thing, McPickle, you do not get a lower service from CHQ. I know that you want to sit there and think that somehow, since God smiled on you and you fly for COEX that you are somehow better than CHQ....well let me tell you...you aren't. The 99.8% is not an accurate number to be comparing against CHQ because you guys always report "CONTROLABLE" completion factor whereas CHQ just reports the completion factor (Controlable being absent ATC and WX cancellations). In the 2 yrs I have been at CHQ do you want to know how many non ATC or WX cancellations I have had? Exactly ZERO! None, nada, nil. We here at CHQ do an excellent job. MEL's??? Couldn't tell you the last time I had one. Our airplanes are cared for EXTREMELY well. If I had an MEL, I can tell you...it just broke. No carrying over MEL's or pencil whipping them..they get fixed, period. I know you don't like it, but CHQ is a REAL airline, with REAL pilots, and REAL mechanics. I know you can sit there on the crackpipe and badmouth and bash us all you like, but the fact is, we are not your enemy, and we are not beneath you. I SINCERELY wish you and everyone else at COEX the absolute best. I have a ton of friends there and had the opportunity at CHQ not come up (furloughed COEX) I would be back there with you fighting the good fight. But for God sakes man, we are just pilots...just like you. We show up and do our job to the absolute best of our abilities. Abilities that are no less than yours.

Once again, I wish you and all the pilots at COEX the absolute best. Good luck in your fight for a great contract.

 

[nimtz]

The 170/190 is the future and he has a head start on the rest. Pay is only 5% more for the Ca plus you add another Fa and you get (mgt) 40% more seats. The 190 is an even better deal, 15% more than the 145 CA pay and the 2 FA's and they get 80% more rev. Look for the dump and flush on CHQ 145/135 and AA can have the 140.

Again, congratulations to CHQ, Mesa, Mesaba, and Skywest on you're gains in pay over the 50 seat plus range. You're contrubition to the everyones' collective careers is greatly appreciated. Keep selling out our futures. Thanks again!

 

[Mookie]

"Again, congratulations to CHQ, Mesa, Mesaba, and Skywest on you're gains in pay over the 50 seat plus range. You're contrubition to the everyones' collective careers is greatly appreciated. Keep selling out our futures. Thanks again"

confucious say, don't listen to anyone with more flightinfo.com posts than total time....

 

[h25b]

Again, congratulations to CHQ, Mesa, Mesaba, and Skywest on you're gains in pay over the 50 seat plus range. You're contrubition to the everyones' collective careers is greatly appreciated. Keep selling out our futures. Thanks again!

 

[FlyChicaga]

It will be great to up the bar with an industry leading contract at XJT only to have Mesa or CHQ sneak in from behind offering to do it for much less. They are already drooling over the opportunity to gather up CAL flying from XJT... since most of their current flying is very likely to disappear with US Airways.

You can "rah rah" for XJT all you want, encouraging the pilot group to "raise the bar", but as soon as you operate one flight under CAL colors formerly operated by XJT you lose all rights to complain about the degradation of the industry. You are doing the same flying for less. All the gains from over two years of negotiations to "up the bar" with Contract 2002 will be out the window.

But you know, in all honesty, aren't all us regional pilots guilty of that?

 

[aewanabe]

It will be great to up the bar with an industry leading contract at XJT only to have Mesa or CHQ sneak in from behind offering to do it for much less. They are already drooling over the opportunity to gather up CAL flying from XJT... since most of their current flying is very likely to disappear with US Airways.

You can "rah rah" for XJT all you want, encouraging the pilot group to "raise the bar", but as soon as you operate one flight under CAL colors formerly operated by XJT you lose all rights to complain about the degradation of the industry. You are doing the same flying for less. All the gains from over two years of negotiations to "up the bar" with Contract 2002 will be out the window.

But you know, in all honesty, aren't all us regional pilots guilty of that?

You know, I've followed your career with interest on the board here, and been happy for your success and opportunities with VERY little experience. But really, **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**. You're not even on line yet and you're spouting the same crackpot BS about anyone "drooling" to pick up YOUR flying? C'mon, man. 700 hour intern to SAAB FO and a classdate at XJET with 1100 total time... tell me some more about the hard road you've had and how you're holding up the bar for the rest of us.

By the way, I flew with an open MEL on the aft F/A jumpseat today. It was horrible.... but allowed me to do it for cheaper than anyone else!

 

[BoilerUP]

You know, I've followed your career with interest on the board here, and been happy for your success and opportunities with VERY little experience. But really, **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**. You're not even on line yet and you're spouting the same crackpot BS about anyone "drooling" to pick up YOUR flying? C'mon, man. 700 hour intern to SAAB FO and a classdate at XJET with 1100 total time... tell me some more about the hard road you've had and how you're holding up the bar for the rest of us.

aewanabe, you beat me to it!

FlyChicaga, I am happy for the opportunities you have had and currently have, and I hope XJT treats you very well. But please man, save us the lecture and put the koolaid/crackpipe/etc away.

XJT is going to get the best contract THEY can negotiate, and it is in everybody's mutual best interest for XJT to get everything they deserve and then some. If CAL decides to farm out CALEX flying in 2007, its because they want to avoid XJT having any leverage on the company's bottom line, NOT because of lower wages. Don't believe the hyperbole and hype. And if its not CHQ, then it will be TSA, or Horizon, or Pinnacle, or Mesa, or any number of other operators out there vying for a piece of the CALEX pie. You gonna hate everybody for what MANAGEMENT may, or may not do in three years??? Besides, aren't you doing THE SAME FLYING AS CONTINENTAL MAINLINE (thats what you always say, isnt it?) FOR LESS??? How does that make you any different or better than any other "contract" carrier?

Can't a brotha from a "competitor" offer good wishes in the neverending struggle with mgmt. every now and again without being accused of being a bottom-feeding, flying-stealing whore, low-pay-for-growth whore?

 

[FlyChicaga]

Where did I say my flying? Please, quote where I stated anything in regards to any XJT flying being my flying. I am not on the line yet. I have not completed training. It is not my flying. I never even said that I am responsible for holding up any bar. I am too new to this industry to have had the opportunity to do so through contract negotiations or any other means.

And did I not say that all of us in the regional airline sector are guilty of "underbidding"? I include myself in that statement.

I question how my flight time, career progression, or company employment are relevant in this discussion. It seems you quickly reverted to making this personal when I expressed a personal opinion and observation. I know my place in this industry, and that would be the bottom. However, that does not mean that I have no right to be defensive when it comes to discussions about advancements in the regional airline industry.

BoilerUP, do you work for CHQ? It appears that you are currently a student at Purdue.

 

[BoilerUP]

Yes, I am a student at Purdue. I interned at CHQ much like I presume you did at Chicago Express. I very much enjoyed working there and I liked the culture that I saw, and I hope I might have the opportunity to work there this summer after I graduate.

I especially liked this quote from you:

I know my place in this industry, and that would be the bottom. However, that does not mean that I have no right to be defensive when it comes to discussions about advancements in the regional airline industry

It fits not only you, but me perfectly as well. I am at the bottom below you, but I take offense when people who ignorant of what a pilot group has been through start throwing around false statements and hyperbole because they are pissed that group couldn't negotiate a few extra dollars per hour in their contract. You know what made me want to work for CHQ the most during my time there? People seemed genuinely happy and content with both the company and their job. Of course more money would be nice, but every pilot I spoke with commented about the very good QOL, and to me, that is worth more than a few extra bucks per hour. I'd rather have a good job paying a good, fair wage (but not the best) with good security than "max pay to the last day" stickers on my bag a couple times during my career. But that's just me, and as a young aspiring pilot, take that for what it may be worth.

I'm tired of the downright lies and ridiculous rumors that some people (ie REGIONAL PILOTS) spread about other companies. I'm tired of the snobbish percieved superiority some pilots have towards other pilots. I'm tired of hearing on this board the disdain some people have towards CHQ/SKW/Mesa/etc, yet hearing from line pilots everybody smiles and plays nice when talking to a crew or asking for the jumpseat. The hypocracy is sickening and most definately not needed. But thats what we have, and I have no solution to it other than suggesting groups turning blame inward, and not outward to other companies.

Once you get hooked on the airline business, it's worse than dope.

My gawd, ain't it true. I should probably be out at the bars & chasing tail, but since I've dumped a TON of money into this career, I figure its worth a few minutes each day to get the pulse of the front-line employees and the state of the industry from a source not the USA today. I take everything with a grain of salt, but I honestly believe most people on here would get along great if they got together during an overnight or something. We are all different, but yet we are all the same.

I may be a poor broke college student and CFI, but once you hit the line, if you are ever in LAF (for some odd reason) or in LEX over the holidays, the frosty cold beverages are on me.

Frats,


BoilerUP

 

[TWAER]

When are all you guys going to realize that the bar is being lowered by mainline. All you want to talk about is CHQ lowering the bar yet fail to admit all the gains mainline pilots have given back to management. AA, United, Airways, and soon Delta will have given back BILLIONS in order to save their jobs. Yet here we have CHQ who took NO concessions and improved every part of our contract. I know there is a big difference between mainline and regionals, but you are failing to realize mainline jobs are being turned into regional jobs more and more every day.


BTW I could care less if CHQ ever flies for Cont. And as far as Airways goes. If they liquidate, Delta has opions on all those aircraft. Who knows if they will take them or not but they get first pick.

 

[KingAirer]

It will be great to up the bar with an industry leading contract at XJT only to have Mesa or CHQ sneak in from behind offering to do it for much less. They are already drooling over the opportunity to gather up CAL flying from XJT... since most of their current flying is very likely to disappear with US Airways.

You can "rah rah" for XJT all you want, encouraging the pilot group to "raise the bar", but as soon as you operate one flight under CAL colors formerly operated by XJT you lose all rights to complain about the degradation of the industry. You are doing the same flying for less. All the gains from over two years of negotiations to "up the bar" with Contract 2002 will be out the window.

But you know, in all honesty, aren't all us regional pilots guilty of that?

Dude you got it all wrong. Yeah we are drooling over all the CAL (cant wait to fly that globe around)flying, but what we really cant wait for is to become part of Travolta Air. Word is he already has bought ATA and is just going to cover up the first A and WAMMO, travolta air.

 

[nimtz]

My gawd, ain't it true. I should probably be out at the bars & chasing tail, but since I've dumped a TON of money into this career, I figure its worth a few minutes each day to get the pulse of the front-line employees and the state of the industry from a source not the USA today.

It ain't worth it. You'll do yourself a bigger favor in the long term by putting those few minutes back into the bar and tail. After all Purdue looked pretty good blasting Syracuse last week.

 

[Saluki Dawg]

Yes, I am a student at Purdue. I interned at CHQ much like I presume you did at Chicago Express. I very much enjoyed working there and I liked the culture that I saw, and I hope I might have the opportunity to work there this summer after I graduate.

I especially liked this quote from you:
It fits not only you, but me perfectly as well. I am at the bottom below you, but I take offense when people who ignorant of what a pilot group has been through start throwing around false statements and hyperbole because they are pissed that group couldn't negotiate a few extra dollars per hour in their contract. You know what made me want to work for CHQ the most during my time there? People seemed genuinely happy and content with both the company and their job. Of course more money would be nice, but every pilot I spoke with commented about the very good QOL, and to me, that is worth more than a few extra bucks per hour. I'd rather have a good job paying a good, fair wage (but not the best) with good security than "max pay to the last day" stickers on my bag a couple times during my career. But that's just me, and as a young aspiring pilot, take that for what it may be worth.

I'm tired of the downright lies and ridiculous rumors that some people (ie REGIONAL PILOTS) spread about other companies. I'm tired of the snobbish percieved superiority some pilots have towards other pilots. I'm tired of hearing on this board the disdain some people have towards CHQ/SKW/Mesa/etc, yet hearing from line pilots everybody smiles and plays nice when talking to a crew or asking for the jumpseat. The hypocracy is sickening and most definately not needed. But thats what we have, and I have no solution to it other than suggesting groups turning blame inward, and not outward to other companies.

My gawd, ain't it true. I should probably be out at the bars & chasing tail, but since I've dumped a TON of money into this career, I figure its worth a few minutes each day to get the pulse of the front-line employees and the state of the industry from a source not the USA today. I take everything with a grain of salt, but I honestly believe most people on here would get along great if they got together during an overnight or something. We are all different, but yet we are all the same.

I may be a poor broke college student and CFI, but once you hit the line, if you are ever in LAF (for some odd reason) or in LEX over the holidays, the frosty cold beverages are on me.

Frats,


BoilerUP

This statement is exactly why wages at the Regionals will continue to be at poverty wages. Boiler, you still have a lot to learn about this industry. This isn't meant to be harsh, but you are basing your opinions on a Semester Internship at Chatauqua. You are probably single, in your early 20's, and no family to support. This won't always be the case. Eventually, you will be married with a family to support, and you will find that the wages paid at carriers like Chatauqua are not enough to support a family of 4, unless your wife works full time or you have a 2nd job yourself to supplement your income. That's the reality for thousands of pilots at airlines like CHQ, XJT, Mesa, Eagle, etc. So, until you've walked a mile in one of these pilot's shoes, you should reserve comment until you have.

Now, where do I pick up my MAX PAY TILL THE LAST DAY ALPA sticker!

 

[BoilerUP]

This statement is exactly why wages at the Regionals will continue to be at poverty wages. Boiler, you still have a lot to learn about this industry. This isn't meant to be harsh, but you are basing your opinions on a Semester Internship at Chatauqua. You are probably single, in your early 20's, and no family to support. This won't always be the case. Eventually, you will be married with a family to support, and you will find that the wages paid at carriers like Chatauqua are not enough to support a family of 4, unless your wife works full time or you have a 2nd job yourself to supplement your income. That's the reality for thousands of pilots at airlines like CHQ, XJT, Mesa, Eagle, etc. So, until you've walked a mile in one of these pilot's shoes, you should reserve comment until you have.

Now, where do I pick up my MAX PAY TILL THE LAST DAY ALPA sticker!

Saluki,

I am guilty on all counts. I am in my early 20s, single with no family to support. My opinion of Chautauqua comes from my semester interning there, as well as the daily interaction I had with both flight crews and management. I also am swayed by the opinions posters on this board have of their current employer, as well as other companies out there.

I stand by my statement that I'd rather have a GOOD, FAIR WAGE and an excellent QOL than industry-leading wages with a marginal QOL. That having been said, I am not a line pilot nor do I pretend to be one. Because of that reason and my situation as posted above, I am signing off of this thread and leaving the discussion to current line pilots who have been there and done that. Perhaps I know not of what I speak.

Good luck getting the contract you deserve.

 

[Jetlink]

Hostile takeover? Yeah, sure. XJT's got the cash for that.

Besides, Wexford owns 51 percent of the stock, so that can't happen. And since Delta holds 17 percent, it likely won't dump something that's making money.

Kind of like Continental wouldn't dump XJet because its making money....oh wait, it did...to make more money pronto.....hmmm

 

[TWAER]

This statement is exactly why wages at the Regionals will continue to be at poverty wages. Boiler, you still have a lot to learn about this industry. This isn't meant to be harsh, but you are basing your opinions on a Semester Internship at Chatauqua. You are probably single, in your early 20's, and no family to support. This won't always be the case. Eventually, you will be married with a family to support, and you will find that the wages paid at carriers like Chatauqua are not enough to support a family of 4, unless your wife works full time or you have a 2nd job yourself to supplement your income. That's the reality for thousands of pilots at airlines like CHQ, XJT, Mesa, Eagle, etc. So, until you've walked a mile in one of these pilot's shoes, you should reserve comment until you have.

Now, where do I pick up my MAX PAY TILL THE LAST DAY ALPA sticker!

Well, I can comment since I am a line-holder. I have a nice house, 3 cars, two kids and a dog. Hell, I even take two weeks of vacation a year. Our wages are not the very top, but last time I checked, I was not in poverty. Oh, my wife does work PART TIME.

 

[rumorhasit]

The rumor I'm hearing around CLE is that CHQ put a bid on the Continental flying for $200 to $300 less per hour than XJET is getting.

I've heard the same thing from management. that is why all the recent layoffs in the last few weeks!!! the head of chq went into gordo's office and offered to undercut xjt by 20-30 percent and when oil prices @ record levels gordo is going to listen!!!!

 

[Bayoupilot]

Kind of like Continental wouldn't dump XJet because its making money....oh wait, it did...to make more money pronto.....hmmm

Good point ... except that Wexford still owns 51 percent of RJET.