ExpressJet takes out FULL PAGE AD in USA Today

[coex]

For those of you who have not seen the ad you can go here.
http://www.aviationinterviews.com/images/alpa.gif

(I removed the PDF file)

 

[Nova]

Well I am one who thinks starting pay should be between $25-30k...

Just look at what your average college grad would make with a 4 year degree straight out of school.

So looking at what an average college grad makes out of school and you still think that $25-30k is where regional pilot pay should fall? As much as a General Studies major gets?

While anything closer to 20k is a good thing it is still way to low.

There's nothing good about $20k. That is a lowered expectation.

I don't really have an issue with a first year probabtionary wage.

What other similar profession pays a probationary salary for 1 year? Its' not like there is a huge increase in year 2 like one might find at a larger major airline.

Anyone can say based on what time and expense one has invested they should make much more but the likelyhood of that is very doubtful.

Doubtful to you maybe. If pilots stood up for what they truly believed it wouldn't be an issue.

I don't quite understand what the f#$% you are talking about.

Who do you work for? Perhaps that would explain your confusion.

 

[flyingitalian]

This isn't accurate at all. ..... Continental Express used to have starting rates in the $13/hour range. Under the current contract, it is $19.50/hour. Under the new contract, it will be more no doubt. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Sam

Actually this is not accurate either. Under the old contract you had to pay for training. So after the $10k to 7.5k fee the starting salary first year was about 3k to 5.5k.

Yet even at these salaries people are stacked 3 deep for the job. If you are going to talk about market wages as was compared to in an earlier post, you are willing to let the market determine the wage. I dont think you want to go there.

Now with CAL losing money have they made any noise about renegotiating their fee for departure paid to Express Jet?

Good Luck, its going to be a tough road.

 

[Britpilot]

Now with CAL losing money have they made any noise about renegotiating their fee for departure paid to Express Jet?

No. Nor can they unless Chapter 11 is entered.

 

[nonstop]

Good Luck, its going to be a tough road.

<sarcasm>Wow. No sh1t? I thought airline management rolled over easy, especially with a document like the RLA slanted so much in the favor of labor.</sarcasm>

This guy wins most obvious comment of the year award.

BTW: 25-30k a year is a JOKE. The whole "probationary" first year is one of the biggest scams airline management has got going(and they've pretty much cornered the market on scamming their employees). And yes, I'm aware I'd have to give up some of my check to raise first year pay. If we don't look out for each other no one will.

 

[flyingitalian]

<sarcasm>Wow. No sh1t? I thought airline management rolled over easy, especially with a document like the RLA slanted so much in the favor of labor.</sarcasm>

This guy wins most obvious comment of the year award.

QUOTE]

Easy now. Should not the prize go to you, for if its such an obvious statement why does it take a brain child like yourself to point out the obvious.

Actually its going to be, and has been a tough road not because of the RLA, but because the group basically has no leverage. This is not because they are not united as a group, I think they are very united even more so than CAL. However the pool of available pilots is large, their main and only customer is losing money, and if they strike there are clauses in the agreement that trigger cancelation of contracts and repo of airplanes. I even believe in part they want a strike over a contract that will cost them considerably more.

 

[azpilot]

So looking at what an average college grad makes out of school and you still think that $25-30k is where regional pilot pay should fall? As much as a General Studies major gets?

You are missing the point, there is what people think they deserve and what a company is willing to pay. Two different issues. Just because you or I may think we are worth $X per year does not mean we will see it.

There's nothing good about $20k. That is a lowered expectation.
.

Where did I say it was good? It isn't a lowered expectation. It is a reality and one has to choose whether or not they want to work for that rate.

Doubtful to you maybe. If pilots stood up for what they truly believed it wouldn't be an issue.

The problem is that not everyone agrees this is in their best interest. For example those that PFT, Original Freedumb pilots, Gulfstream, etc.

Who do you work for? Perhaps that would explain your confusion.

I am not confused. If you think you can make $50,000 per year, 1st year, or pick WHATEVER number that satisfies you please go ahead and sit on the curb waiting for that. Jesus Christ unless one agrees with whatever your magic number is they must be wrong, clueless, or misinformed. I am not currently flying for an airline. One has to make choices as to where they are willing to work. There are plenty of places I would not apply based on a variety of factors. This could be that you only would apply at a place like Comair because the wages are better or maybe you would apply to COEX because you are hopeful that those whom are in contract negotiations will get better wages. However, at somepoint you do have to look at what is going to help move your career along and this may mean going to work for a regional where the 1st-X years pay is low.

Let me spell it out I AM ALL FOR HIGHER WAGES AND BETTER WORKING CONDITIONS. I would love to make $250,000 per year and work 10 days per month. This probably isn't going to happen though. It is simple supply and demand.

I am done debating with you. You are reading way to much into what I was saying.

COEX Pilots good luck with your negotiations. I hope you get what you deserve and hope the pilot group will stick to their guns.

 

[I Hate Freight]

http://www.aviationinterviews.com/images/ALPA.pdf

I'm getting a "page not found" error.

 

[Smoothflyin]

We in aviation are overpaid, underworked, and well respected.

 

[BRA]

i thought that girl was hot

 

[Nova]

You are missing the point, there is what people think they deserve and what a company is willing to pay. Two different issues. Just because you or I may think we are worth $X per year does not mean we will see it.

Ah, so we'll just sit back and take what's given to us? It's better to shoot for $xx/hour and fall short by a few bucks than just assume that you'll never get it and settle for less right off the bat.

Where did I say it was good?

While anything closer to 20k is a good thing it is still way to low.

The problem is that not everyone agrees this is in their best interest. For example those that PFT, Original Freedumb pilots, Gulfstream, etc.

I am not currently flying for an airline.

Walk a mile in the shoes before you judge them. It can be easy to critisize or offer advice from outside the industry. You ever wonder why some pilots cave to lower wages? Until you live the life you aren't really capable of understanding the issue.

However, at somepoint you do have to look at what is going to help move your career along and this may mean going to work for a regional where the 1st-X years pay is low.

And working for less $$ moves your carrier along? Are you sure you don't work for Mesa?

 

[azpilot]

Ah, so we'll just sit back and take what's given to us? It's better to shoot for $xx/hour and fall short by a few bucks than just assume that you'll never get it and settle for less right off the bat.

And working for less $$ moves your carrier along? Are you sure you don't work for Mesa?

Hey dumb @ss why don't you read the entire quote you referenced.
Originally Posted by azpilot
While anything closer to 20k is a good thing it is still way to low

I said it was still way to low. No I don't work for Mesa. Go drink a good cup of shut the f*ck up because you are just bitter and should find a different career.

 

[Nova]

Is that all you can come up with? I originally quoted that there was nothing good about 20k where you clearly stated that their was...."it's good but low."

Different career? Why don't you even start your career before you start giving out advice about it to others.

 

[embdrvr]

The sad part is every one of those FO's took the job knowing what they were going to get paid. There's even idiots out there willing to do it for less. "Whoopee, you mean you'll pay me to fly this way cool jet? Wow!!!" That's the mentality you're up against.

 

[labbats]

No, you're up against flight instructors who bust their ass to fly 50-80 hours a month tops. At $10 an hour, that doesn't add up to much and everything ahead of you looks pretty rosy in comparison.

 

[acaTerry]

Oh, cry me a river!

No, you're up against flight instructors who bust their ass to fly 50-80 hours a month tops. At $10 an hour, that doesn't add up to much and everything ahead of you looks pretty rosy in comparison.

No way Jose. Don't even ATTEMPT that argument here. You as a CFI have no idea, at all, what the issues of being a regional pilot, and the regional pay involve. We as airline pilots know, very well, the issues of being a CFI because for most of us being a CFI was one of the hurdles on the way to being an airline pilot. Myself, over 3000 hrs dual given. That's right. Three frickity dickity thousand hours in light aircraft in that desert sun with kids trying to kill me. Most of those hours I didn't even get that 10 bucks an hour that you get. Let me guess, you work at Pan Am or Westwind or something. You don't even have to hunt down students and pay for advertising....the school does that. If the student load is light, you are allowed to have a job elsewhere. Most of us came up at the FBO's where you were there from 5 a.m. to 8 or 9 p.m. whether we had flying or not. Clean the toilets, pull the weeds, clean the hangar, wash the planes. It was all in a days work. We were not allowed to have another job. And we got NOTHING for it unless a propeller was turning.
The "poor me I'm a CFI and would do anything to fly a jet" is why regional airlines pay so poorly. The airlines know that there will always be people who will do something for nothing. But you have to ask yourself, when the thrill of polyester wears off, what's in it for you? We all love to fly, but we deserve a decent living whether
a) we love flying or not
b) the millionaire CEO wants to pay it or not, and
c) someone else will come along and do it cheap.
Something I learned from 19 years of flying is that I keep quiet about something until I have done it. When you are an experienced professional pilot at a regional, flying a sophisticated jet airplane sometimes in lousy WX with broken equipment, in crowded skies with cranky passengers, cranky controllers, and an FAA wingnut sitting in the JS just waiting for the opportunity to nail you, ask yourself if it was worth $20,000-$30,000. No way. It needs to be fought upward, which is why so many people want to raise the minimums for hire. If it was harder to get there, people will fight for a better wage. Getthe job with 400 to 1200 hours and someone will roll right over and say "hit me again Ike, and this time, put some STANK on it!!". (couldn't resist)
Not trying to come on in assault, just wanting to give you something to think about for later. Fly safe.

 

[TEXAN AVIATOR]

Three frickity dickity thousand hours

LMAO thought that was funny for some reason.. moving along....

 

[acaTerry]

LMAO thought that was funny for some reason.. moving along....

Dr. Evil....love that guy. See ya Tex.

 

[Smoothflyin]

Amen Labbats...

 

[sweptback]

No way Jose. Don't even ATTEMPT that argument here. You as a CFI have no idea, at all, what the issues of being a regional pilot, and the regional pay involve. We as airline pilots know, very well, the issues of being a CFI because for most of us being a CFI was one of the hurdles on the way to being an airline pilot. Myself, over 3000 hrs dual given. That's right. Three frickity dickity thousand hours in light aircraft in that desert sun with kids trying to kill me. Most of those hours I didn't even get that 10 bucks an hour that you get. Let me guess, you work at Pan Am or Westwind or something. You don't even have to hunt down students and pay for advertising....the school does that. If the student load is light, you are allowed to have a job elsewhere. Most of us came up at the FBO's where you were there from 5 a.m. to 8 or 9 p.m. whether we had flying or not. Clean the toilets, pull the weeds, clean the hangar, wash the planes. It was all in a days work. We were not allowed to have another job. And we got NOTHING for it unless a propeller was turning.
The "poor me I'm a CFI and would do anything to fly a jet" is why regional airlines pay so poorly. The airlines know that there will always be people who will do something for nothing.

So wait a minute... you were a CFI yet you pulled weeds and washed airplanes for free? Let me guess, you did all that in the hopes of getting more flight time? And then you got a job at a regional and made more money?

How is that any different than a CFI type taking a job at a regional for what is a pay increase for him, doing probably what he wants to do? If I were you, I'd be complaining about the place you CFIed at!

Face it, the airlines all have us by the tail on this one... but at least airlines like CoEx are trying to raise the bar a little.

Let's hope it works instead of insulting others about their choice in careers.

 

[acaTerry]

Because It Is An Entry Level Job!!

So wait a minute... you were a CFI yet you pulled weeds and washed airplanes for free? Let me guess, you did all that in the hopes of getting more flight time? And then you got a job at a regional and made more money?

How is that any different than a CFI type taking a job at a regional for what is a pay increase for him, doing probably what he wants to do? If I were you, I'd be complaining about the place you CFIed at!

Face it, the airlines all have us by the tail on this one... but at least airlines like CoEx are trying to raise the bar a little.

Let's hope it works instead of insulting others about their choice in careers.

Because being a CFI is an ENTRY level job. Your first job in an airplane, especially a 2 seat, 6 gal/hr 90 knot machine has always been viewed as (I hate the term, but) "paying your dues".

A CE152 will not bring in much money to the school. A 50 to 70 seat jet brings in good $$ to the operarator, and a fair portion should go to the people who make things happen. This is because the position commands a lot more responsibilty, and a bad pilot can cost BIG bucks to the company. After all, this is not an entry level job. It is performed by a professional with experience. There is a wide gap between the jobs.

I have insulted nobody. All I'm saying is that just because is better than the other doesn't mean we should settle for less than we deserve because we like it.

 

[KingAirKiddo]

No, you're up against flight instructors who bust their ass to fly 50-80 hours a month tops. At $10 an hour, that doesn't add up to much and everything ahead of you looks pretty rosy in comparison.

No way Jose. Don't even ATTEMPT that argument here. You as a CFI have no idea, at all, what the issues of being a regional pilot, and the regional pay involve. We as airline pilots know, very well, the issues of being a CFI because for most of us being a CFI was one of the hurdles on the way to being an airline pilot. Myself, over 3000 hrs dual given. That's right. Three frickity dickity thousand hours in light aircraft in that desert sun with kids trying to kill me. Most of those hours I didn't even get that 10 bucks an hour that you get. Let me guess, you work at Pan Am or Westwind or something. You don't even have to hunt down students and pay for advertising....the school does that. If the student load is light, you are allowed to have a job elsewhere. Most of us came up at the FBO's where you were there from 5 a.m. to 8 or 9 p.m. whether we had flying or not. Clean the toilets, pull the weeds, clean the hangar, wash the planes. It was all in a days work. We were not allowed to have another job. And we got NOTHING for it unless a propeller was turning.
The "poor me I'm a CFI and would do anything to fly a jet" is why regional airlines pay so poorly. The airlines know that there will always be people who will do something for nothing. But you have to ask yourself, when the thrill of polyester wears off, what's in it for you? We all love to fly, but we deserve a decent living whether
a) we love flying or not
b) the millionaire CEO wants to pay it or not, and
c) someone else will come along and do it cheap.
Something I learned from 19 years of flying is that I keep quiet about something until I have done it. When you are an experienced professional pilot at a regional, flying a sophisticated jet airplane sometimes in lousy WX with broken equipment, in crowded skies with cranky passengers, cranky controllers, and an FAA wingnut sitting in the JS just waiting for the opportunity to nail you, ask yourself if it was worth $20,000-$30,000. No way. It needs to be fought upward, which is why so many people want to raise the minimums for hire. If it was harder to get there, people will fight for a better wage. Getthe job with 400 to 1200 hours and someone will roll right over and say "hit me again Ike, and this time, put some STANK on it!!". (couldn't resist)
Not trying to come on in assault, just wanting to give you something to think about for later. Fly safe.

Somebody buy this man a beer

 

[pilot1704]

I think we should do more effoerts like this!

We should also have ads about comparing tickets prices with different ways of traveling!

I got round trip from LGA-RIC_LGA 167$ via air flight was around 45-55 minutes

I checked train the ticket was 320 roundtrip and it would have taken around 5 hours one way!

Without talking about Buss or rent a car...


Regular passenger is so dumb that they don't realize these things, everyone things that
airtraveling with cheap prices is "one of the rights in this country" BSh!t Airtraveling is priviledge and that how it should stay. If you can't afford travel by air, I should not have to take pay cut to get white trash to travel cheap, or What do you guys think.

When I started to use airlines on my job before flying, we got dressed up and we took it as an treat when we were flying.

Have you ever tought about this, when milk price raises what does food stores do for prices. They raise them, yes they do. What about Gas prices , yes Gas stations raise prices. What does airlines do , no they can't raise prices, because people quit flying if ticket would cost 15$ more. Lets raise prices according the economy and the inflation in this country.

Any inputs?

 

[cynic]

My input is you idiots took the job and now you've got what you deserve.

I can see the future because I am a super genius.

I see a small token raise. Maybe 5% if you are lucky.

You made your 17K dollar a year bed, now go sleep in it. I turned the job down.

 

[Bjet Driver]

My input is you idiots took the job and now you've got what you deserve.

The almighty 1000hr. MEI has spoken........Stay close to the gate Cynic, my airplane may need some gas.

 

[Sam Fisher]

My input is you idiots took the job and now you've got what you deserve.

I can see the future because I am a super genius.

I see a small token raise. Maybe 5% if you are lucky.

You made your 17K dollar a year bed, now go sleep in it. I turned the job down.

Good thing you aren't a real super genius. The company already offered our captains a 9% raise on date of signing and our FO's around a 13% raise. They also offered to put us in the profit sharing program which paid out 8.6% in 2003. Have a nice day.

Sam

 

[Nova]

Stop SF, you'll confuse him with facts.

 

[cynic]

But I am a super genius. I can see the future. I see you getting nadda. nothing. zip. zilch. and guess what, if they DOUBLE your pay you are still working for crap.

And perhaps my profile is just old. Maybe I have more than 1000 hours. And is it hours that would determin how qualified I am? Should I fly pipe patrols and then come back?

Don't even bother, responding to me, I already know what you'll say because I am a super genius.

 

[sf3boy]

Maybe I have more than 1000 hours.

Most likely you have less.

 

[Stick Man]

This is the sillyest thread.

'nuff said