Exhausted pilots reveal risky nodding off

[skeezer]

Just an FYI for those of you who think calling in fatigued is an easy call consider where I work. We have a "no Fault" attendance policy whereby any call off duty sick/fatigued/dead is a mark against you. I'm not saying it is wise, but when the choice is between your job and flying tried most people will suck it up and fly half-asleep. Not good yet the FAA couldn't care less.

Skeezer

 

[wms]

I can't recall falling asleep on the job, but I remember waking up a couple times.

 

[doh]

Safety first! If airline pilots need to complain about not getting the proper sleep between flights, it's their obligation to report this to management before a plane crashes and people die.

OMFG! Son, you have way more to learn (student pilot indeed) than I could ever have time to teach!uke:

 

[crxpilot]

there is waaayyyy too much exaggeration and whining going on about this. did the regional thing for 7 years both commuting and not commuting. i understood what i signed up for. however, it was never that bad. sometimes i think there is no pleasing some people.

 

[relief tube]

Sure it was a "regional" they were talking about and not Jetblue and their passenger-well-being-risked "fatigue experiments"? Idiots.

Somebody send this article to Neelman.

 

[shortbus driver]

hmm after a long day...

when you fly the 16 max or whatever the duty day allows...then you get back and leave the airport and get home...shower make dinner sleep wake up tired...after 10 hours off...with only a 15 minute door to door...that really leaves about 7 hours or so...if you don't fall asleep immediately...lose more time...all said and done i regularly flew on about 5 hours of sleep...fine for a bit but then one day a week...i had to say...go shopping now 4 hours of sleep. Basically if i called in sick every time i was fatigued at my last job i would have been fatigued a minimum of 30 days a year. Thats being realistic. So if its my duty to do that and its completely allowed...i am pretty excited about my future. A whole month of fatigue days. I believed that crap when i was in school too, but the real world teaches you to do what you have to do. Which is try to not sleep at the controls...i do soduko to keep my mind alert...but once in a while i still slip into unconsciousness

 

[HelloNewman]

I catch myself thinking this the night before I need to commute to work

wake up at 4am
catch the 6am
start my day at noon
sit at some God foresaken hell hole for 3-4.99 hours
fly some more
released at 2359

real safe to be up flying after being up for 20 hours straight

commuting is your choice though. While it does suck having to move for airlines you still choose to commute. If you were really interested in safety perhaps you would fly in the night before if you can't get a trip that starts late enough to get proper rest?

 

[Booker]

Anybody remember that line Matthew Modine had in And the Band Played On? Any time the fatigue issue comes up--and it seems to be coming up more often these days--I think of it:

"How many people have to die before it'll be cost effective for you people to do something about it? A hundred? A thousand? Give us a number so we won't annoy you until the amount of money you start losing on lawsuits makes it more profitable for you to save people than to kill them!"

 

[av8er2]

Good to see any media attention. This is a real problem.

 

[OPECJet]

there is waaayyyy too much exaggeration and whining going on about this. did the regional thing for 7 years both commuting and not commuting. i understood what i signed up for. however, it was never that bad. sometimes i think there is no pleasing some people.

Different companies do different things.....

 

[XJohXJ]

At Mesaba, sometimes it's OK to call fatigued, and sometimes they make you feel like one of the FBI's most wanted criminals. They are NOT consistent, and it stinks.

 

[detwilers]

I agree that some times the company schedules put us in these fatigued situations but more times we put ourselves in these situations. I do it all the time. Got to get up at 3:30 am for my 5:45 show. Well I usually don't go to sleep until about 1000pm. That's my problem. However I do agree we need at least 8 hours in the hotel (check in to check out) on overnights. That would help a lot.

The other thing is people for some reason seem to think it's bad to take a power nap every once in a while. I personally haven't slept yet while flying in 6 years but I have tried to take a power nap while at crusie a few times ( I just don't do nap that easlily). I have flown with many Captians that have taken quick naps. As long as you tell the other guy (i.e. I am going to study the circuit breaker panel) and it's a non-critical phase of flight then help yourself to a nice little nap.

International guys aren't expected to go the whole 12 hour flight without the option of taking a rest or nap so why is it frowned upon if a regional pilot takes a nap during his 12 hour day while the other pilot flies for a bit?

 

[pb1900]

It's not just lack of sleep before a flight, but the schedules that our respective airlines choose to give us. I report at 4:30am on the first day and get done at 1:00pm, but the next day I start at 1:00pm and don't get done until 11:00pm. Throw on a reduced rest at the end with a 7:00am show and it makes it difficult to adjust my sleep schedule to match the sometimes erratic flight schedule.

 

[wmuflyguy]

It's not just lack of sleep before a flight, but the schedules that our respective airlines choose to give us. I report at 4:30am on the first day and get done at 1:00pm, but the next day I start at 1:00pm and don't get done until 11:00pm. Throw on a reduced rest at the end with a 7:00am show and it makes it difficult to adjust my sleep schedule to match the sometimes erratic flight schedule.

Had the same thing happen this past week on a four day. First 3 days all late, 1030p or late releases, the last overnite was a reduced rest woth a switch to the morning shift.

The bad part of it, one of our lovely stations changed the actual block out time to make themselves look less crappy (and thus putting us into a different rest situation) and I get a call in the crew van to the airport from crew scheduling.(I don't answer) Well the FA decides she needs to call so she doesn't in trouble and now screws the rest of us. So they fudge our 8 hour overnite into a 9 hour over nite(They told us not to go to the gate for another 30 minutes after we were laready sitting in the airport). I just told them they shouldn't add anything on to my schedule, because I wouldn't feel up to it.

Same thing plays out at all airlines every nite.

The switching of sleep patterns hurts me more than the lack of sleep. I normally go to bed at 1 or 2 and wake up at 7 or 8. So not sleeping alot isn't a problem.

 

[XJohXJ]

There is no amount of "pilot disipline" or "fatigue training" that can get you to safely switch sleep schedules around to adjust to crappy airline schedules. It is NOT the pilot's fault. It IS the airlines fault. MSA consistently moves work shifts throughout a trip and then almost always ends with a reduced rest to a 6AM show for a 14 hour duty day with 7.9 hours of block time. You can pick out the day 4 (or 3) guys in the terminal because they are the zombies.