examining authority/ surrendering ticket

[troy]

I'm looking at getting my multi soon, and the place where I am thinking of going has examining authority. My understanding is that I'll have to surrender my current certificate and they will mail me the new one after the checkride. Is there any way to still fly? I don't think that I can call for a fax of my old one because I would be multi rated at that point.

 

[Bandit60]

It is required for the examiner to give you a temp. certificate.
Dont give him your old certicate unless he gives you a temp.

I would think about going to someone else. It sounds kinda shaddy to me

 

[troy]

I believe that it is at Iowa Lakes Community College....I haven't talked to them yet. Just had some free time on the computer while waiting for my student to show up.

 

[labbats]

Head to Sheldon and get it done up there with Elmer and Lyle.

 

[troy]

Any idea of the cost per hour? ILCC is about $166 w/ instructor

 

[cale42]

Generally schools that have their own examing authority have what is called an Airmen Certification Representative(ACR). So while any of the chief pilots can give your checkride, only the ACR can sign your certificate. Due to physical location differences, the ACR for a multi campus school may not be located at the same place that you take your checkride, so after your ride, they do the paperwork, the ACR signs it and it is sent to you.

There is nothing shady about this, this is how many schools are setup, but it can provide an inconvenience for the student, as you can be without a certificate for a few days time. If it is a big issue.. you have to be able to fly the next day or something like that, talk to the school.. usually they can arrange for the ACR to be on site when you take your ride, or have a day or less turnaround to get your temp..

 

[Hugh Johnson]

If you pass an FAA checkride, you get a temporary cetificate. End of story. Any place that cant/wont do that is not worth your money. Only FAA designated examiners can give you a certificate. No chief pilot without examining authority can. No one other than the examiner can give you a certificate. I would call the FSDO controlling the school and talk to them. This sounds like a scam.

 

[cale42]

Hugh,

Thats completely and totally wrong. Any 141 school with self examining authority can issue you a certificate. The way 141 is set up though, the school issues the certifcate NOT the chief pilot. The chief pilot performs the final stage check, and if it satisfactory the school issues a certificate. So your temp is signed by the designated representative of the school... this is how 141 works.. nothing even remotely sketchy about it.

I'm amazed at how often ppl with no knowledge of 141 have the nerve to say things are a scam. Under 141 you only need 35 hours of flight time to get a PVT.. but I've heard countless ppl supposedly knowledgable in aviation swear this isn't true.. if you don't know how 141 works don't call it a scam out of ignorance.

 

[LittleDeuce]

Examiner

My freind WHAT are you talking about?

It does not matter whether its a 141 school or not. ONLY a DE or a Fed can issue a Pilot Certificate.

 

[cale42]

I'm a manager at a 141 school... I process our new licenses... the school issues the temp.. I'm quite sure about this...

 

[troy]

Thanks for your relies, I know that it is not a scam, it's a community college. I just don't want to fly the a/c to a de to finish up. (more $)

 

[chrisdahut24]

Refer to 141 Subpart D.

When a student completes an "approved course" under 141, the student does not take a practical test. The student is only required to complete all lessons, stagechecks, ground school and hour requirements of the course. The "End-of-course Test" (which is NOT a practical test, but does encompass all the required tasks from a practical test) can be conducted by any designated end of course stagecheck pilot of the school. Once the course is completed, the flight school ACR (the stage check pilot head honcho) is authorized by the FAA to issue an airman certificate "without further practical test".

One of the drawbacks is that it can take some time to actually have the temporary issued. As mentioned in a previous post, although any designated stagecheck pilot can conduct the stagechecks/end of course test, only the ACR can sign the temporary. The ACR is also 100% responsible for making sure that the 141 records are in order and that all course requirements have been met, so therefore has to do a thorough audit of every student file. This audit takes a lot more time to complete then the 10-20 minute 8710/logbook check a DE or inspector must complete. This coupled with the sheer number of graduates at some large flight schools can cause some delays. Inconvenient but unavoidable.

This is an EXTREMELY common practice in the flight training world, although I can understand that those completely unfamiliar with FAR part 141 would find it strange.

 

[LittleDeuce]

Examiner

Chris;

Your point is well taken, but please answer this.

Is the person that signs the temporary an Examiner or not?

Please enlighten me!

 

[iahawkeye]

Think about going up north to albert lea minnesota (just across the border of iowa), and get accelerated flight training from MN Aviation. I have heard good and bad things about lakes training, but I know MN is a good place, and cheap. 1-800-829-5216

 

[chrisdahut24]

Little Duece,

The person who signs the temporary at our flight school is not a DE. He is an Airman Certification Representative (ACR), a title/position that only those involved in the 141 world would be familiar with. Although he can sign/issue temporary certificates, he is only authorized to issue certificates for graduates of the flight schools approved course. If I were to complete a course under part 61 at my flight school, he would not be authorized to issue an airman certificate and I would have to take a practical test with a DE or Inspector.

I ammended my above post and explained the process a little more thoroughly.

Hope this all helps!

 

[EatSleepFly]

Re: Examiner

Chris;

Your point is well taken, but please answer this.

Is the person that signs the temporary an Examiner or not?

Please enlighten me!

No. He's an ACR...Airman Certification Representative...or something like that. When an FAA gives a 141 school self examining authority, the ACR is the individual who is designated to hand out and sign the certificates.

 

[cale42]

The schools ACR is the person that signs the certificate. They are appointed by the school, and have been approved by the FAA.. but they are NOT a designated examiner.. they are in the employ of the flight school.

 

[wingnutt]

Re: Examiner

Please enlighten me!

...so, have you been enlightened???

 

[troy]

I'll check out the one in MN too, thanks!

 

[bobbysamd]

Self-examining Temporaries

I'm looking at getting my multi soon, and the place where I am thinking of going has examining authority. My understanding is that I'll have to surrender my current certificate and they will mail me the new one after the checkride.

That's not true at all. I worked in two well-known schools, ERAU and FSI, which have self-examining authority. Someone in the school will issue a Temporary to you after you pass your final stage check, just like a DE would do. It may not be your school's Chief Flight Instructor, but someone who is assigned to issue temporaries. It is a completely normal self-examining authority SOP.

Hope that helps some more. Good luck with your training.